Kristy 0:06

Welcome to Unshaken the podcast where unwavering faith is real life. I'm Christy, and together with my husband Tony, we dive into authentic conversations, offering biblical insights and sharing stories that inspire resilience, especially for families navigating the challenges of disabilities. Join us each week as we explore faith with family and the journeys that keep us grounded in Christ. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Let's stand firm together. Hi, Unhaken family. This is Christy. I'm here tonight with Tony on a rare chilly evening in Florida. Gonna be in the 30s tonight, so we're kind of snuggled up. And while we're here, kind of chilling out together, we wanted to talk about kind of a difficult, but I think a necessary conversation around some difficult but necessary conversations with extended family when disability is part of the picture. If this resonates with you, I think we've got some strategies that might help you. So let's talk through it. For us, extended family relationships have been both a source of support and a source of stress. And I my guess is that's pretty relatable. I think that's across the board, right? Family can be absolutely just angels sent to us, you know, by God Himself to help us get through some of the toughest things we ever faced. And also sometimes family can be really tough. I know for our family, we had a situation, and this was a few years back now, one of the kids had some pretty significant uh mental health challenges. And at that time, she was just a little overwhelmed. It was all she could do to kind of, you know, hold her own, coming back to school, catching up on, you know, on schoolwork and with friends. And it, although there shouldn't be, there's still a bit of a stigma. And it was just a very emotional time for a kid that was already struggling with mental health issues. And we're very close with my parents. They've always been just a super integral part of our lives. They've always helped with the kids. And this particular kiddo is is very, very close with my dad. But also, I think the people that we're the closest with sometimes are the ones that that maybe it's it's the toughest to be vulnerable, right? Um, you know, she always wanted him to be proud of her and and all of those kinds of things. Anyway, all of this to say we needed their support and they needed to be there for her. They were aware of the situation, and they had a just a really intense need to support her and us through that. And so it it was my responsibility, my privilege as her mother to go before her and to talk to them about some of the things. Yes, you can talk about this. Please don't ask this. Please don't talk about you know these things. It's it's really touchy. Um and I think me being able to have those conversations up front about what we needed and and what we couldn't have, and really to just kind of lay some, I don't want to say ground rules, but just to clarify some things that that had to be a certain way. I think it went a long way toward comfort on actually both sides of that. Um, when our kiddo came back into the picture, they didn't ask her anything that put her on the spot or or flared her anxiety or made her uncomfortable in any way. And they knew kind of what was, you know, what was off limits and and they didn't have the the fear that they were gonna kind of you know step on on anybody's toes or anything like that. They knew kind of where that needed to be. Anyway, all of this to say sometimes these conversations are are really tough, but I think um I think they're they're really, really worth having, again, for for both sides, for for both the kiddos and and the family, the parents of those kiddos, and also the the family members on the other side of things. You know, scripture deals with this kind of thing pretty head-on. I want to read you a verse here from Ephesians. It's Ephesians 4, 15. Uh, and it says, instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is Christ. And the thing that stands out for me here is we're talking about truth and love together. It's they're they're not separate, it's not one and then the other. They're hand in hand. Neither harshness nor avoidance leads to growth. You gotta have, you gotta have both.

Tony 5:33

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. But this also brings to mind when we talk about truth and love, what comes to mind for me is tone. Yes. And to remember that the tone of our words carries so much more weight than the actual words themselves. Like the the tone is going to stay with us and with the person that we're speaking with far longer than than the words are gonna be remembered. We have to think about that and kind of ground ourselves with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Just saying a quick one-sentence prayer. God, just be with me. Before we enter into these hard conversations, I I think prayer is just so vital to have a calm heart for yourself if you're the one that is stepping up to have the the conversation and kind of lay the you know, as Christy said, you know, the the ground rules in in some respects. Um, but also to to just pray for an open heart, pray for, you know, a heart that that is ready and willing to receive the words that you're that you're trying to convey and and to understand where this is coming from. Because ultimately we're talking about family members, we're talking about people that we have in common that we that we all love. We're not on opposing sides, we're on the same team, we're just trying to get on the same page. I just think that that's just very key about it's not just what we say, it's how we say it. And and the the delivery of all of it. When we think about these conversations, I I guess you know the the the basic question is why are these conversations so hard? They're hard because you know, nobody ever wants to offend anybody else, especially within a family dynamic. You know, you don't you don't want there to be um offense, you know, you don't want there to be that awkward space or that awkward silence, you know, every time you know you guys get together. Go ahead, Christy.

Kristy 8:08

I think particularly at this time of year, you know, with the holidays approaching, Thanksgiving is in what, like three weeks? A few weeks, yeah. It's I think it's it's really timely. Like I think a lot of us are gonna be having these conversations, and then there's the holiday, and we're all gonna be together, you know.

Tony 8:30

And beyond Thanksgiving, too, right? Because like if we have these conversations like at the beginning of the Thanksgiving festivities or whatever, what's right around the corner? It's Christmas, and we're all going to get together again in in a month for for Christmas, and so it's important, right, that that we get this taken care of so that everybody can have you know a comfortable, happy time together, but it's delicate for sure. And it absolutely is delicate, but but like you said, it's it's important to to have because you you do want to be able to be on the same page. You do want everyone to be able to enjoy both Thanksgiving and Christmas. These conversations are are important for that. So sometimes there are some family members that that just don't get it. They don't understand the the disability, they don't understand the struggle, and sometimes they may even downplay it. They just have to get over it or you know, whatever like that, and that's that's just simply not the case. And in a lot of cases, we have to be educators, sort of educate the ones that are closest to us more than say the complete stranger, because the complete stranger is going to sometimes have that sort of built-in filter because they are strangers, and so like there's a politeness factor and when it's family there's a there's a comfort level, and that's great that there's a comfort level, but sometimes with that comfort level means less filters and less politeness, and so sometimes we have to educate even more with the people that should be the most understanding of all. You know, it's another way that these conversations can be hard. Sometimes it's a difference of opinion. That's probably one of the toughest segments of this, is because at the end of the day, it is your child, right, that you that you are advocating for and that you're having these conversations for. So you as a parent or as a caregiver have to do what you feel is the best course of action for for your child. And I think that sometimes you're going to run into people that don't agree with whatever the approach is. And I think it can hurt most when it is family members, because family is supposed to be allies, they're supposed to be on your side, you know, love unconditionally and all that kind of stuff. And when there is a disagreement on on care or on therapy or on parenting choices, or going to this school versus that school, or whatever, communication styles, communication methods. There's all different areas that can have disagreement, and we just have to be ready for those. And and I think again, that's why you know prayer is so important. And then lastly, and and probably the one of the most obvious is that there's such an emotional weight to this. Because these are people that that we love and we want there to be peace, especially during the holidays. We don't want anybody to have a horrible holiday. You're sitting around the Thanksgiving table where there should be laughter and plenty of conversation, and all of a sudden, because of a tense conversation, now the entire table is like dead silent. And that's just painful in my eyes.

Kristy 12:42

It is. It is. Well, and it's hard. Somebody else is is potentially hosting, and now you've made a a tough situation at somebody else's house, at somebody else's gathering. Yeah, it's it can be really tough, I think. Um, can I hop in with a just an odd thing? Absolutely. It might not always be kids, it may be your spouse that you're advocating for. You know, as we as we came into this, I've been thinking of it as, you know, kind of a parenting situation. But also, I mean, like, I'm gonna talk about Tony. He's sitting right here with me. You know, there have been times where people have had really maybe insensitive questions or just didn't really know with his cerebral palsy, like what he's capable of, or you know, what they should talk about. Or he and I are are really good at accommodating and getting around, you know, some of the more awkward things. I'm able to go make a plate for him and bring it and then go back, you know, and and get my dinner or whatever the case. Like we can always figure that stuff out. But people don't always, they don't always know how to handle that. And I think sometimes when people feel awkward themselves, they make something that's not a big deal into a really big deal, you know. So it may not be just your kiddos that you're advocating for, it could be somebody else, a parent, a spouse.

Tony 14:11

Just a funny moment that I that just comes to mind is I've had more than one person come up to me in early stages and ask, is cerebral palsy contagious? And and it's like, um, nope, that's not how that works, bud. And uh, you know, and then you know, trying to explain the the true mechanics of cerebral palsy without without getting too medical or too technical or anything like that. And again, having that understanding and having the grace to understand that that question doesn't come out of meanness, or at least I hope it doesn't, it it comes out of a pure ignorance that we can correct easily without hurting anybody's feelings.

Kristy 15:09

People come with unhelpful comments, he'll outgrow it. When the case of um, sometimes I think with my kiddos at school, um, you know, with autism, with ADHD, some of these um just you know neurodiversities that they show up in ways that look behavioral. It's it's almost always a regulation issue, you know what I mean? But how often have we heard somebody say, oh, he'll grow out of it, or you know, if you just were, if you disciplined more, if you were, if you had boundaries. And again, it's it's a lack of understanding on their part. I don't think it's it's meanness. I think truly it is an absolute lack of information and a lack of context. You know, sometimes people don't make room for those accommodations. Sometimes um, you know, what a family might need is a little bit of extra time. We need you to not poke fun at us when we come in 10 minutes late. Like you have no idea what it took for us to get here at all. Uh how about just so glad that you're here. We're so, so glad that you guys could make it, instead of, you know, here they come again, 20 minutes late. Like that's just not what somebody in that situation needs to hear. You know, I think sometimes also there's a tendency to go overboard. And I'm again, this is now that I'm thinking about this in an adult context. So often people want to help Tony so much more than he needs to be helped. And if I get the chance to go ahead, I'm able to say, look, all he needs is a sturdy chair. He needs to not sit in your squishy couch that he's not going to be able to get up from. That's really it. That's really all, you know, that's all he needs. You know, back to when it's kiddos, a lot of times, you know, there's comparisons. You've got cousins that are growing up sort of separately together, you know, like kind of how we all did, you know, and this one's hitting this milestone, but this one's not, or this one's won this award at school, or as has had this basketball tournament, and this this other kiddo hasn't. And, you know, sometimes things like that can be just a little tough. Um, sometimes there's, you know, sometimes there's games or, you know, something going on like that that where there's just kind of a pressure to participate. You know, all the kids are gonna go paint this craft, or they're gonna go play hide and seek, you know, in the backyard. And, you know, everybody isn't isn't made the same way. Some people don't have the fine motor to go paint the craft. You know, some people don't have just the the social awareness to hide well.

Tony 17:58

This is kind of outside the the family context a little bit, but even when you don't necessarily voice it, but everybody does something, and you've got that one person that doesn't, they still feel some kind of way. I bring this up in the sense of being at a training, surrounded by a bunch of my colleagues who were great to me while we were in this training, and then all of a sudden we get to this one segment where everyone else could do this activity, but I couldn't. And it was obvious that that I could not do this. Nobody said anything, nobody tried to make me do it, but in the doing of the activity, I stood out like a short thumb, and you feel some kind of way, you know, yeah because of that.

Kristy 18:59

Somebody planned that event and saw you there and should have seen that coming. But in the in the the context of of holiday, how often do we do that? How often do we invite disability or no disability? How often do we say, we're going to Nana's and we're gonna sit at the formal dining table and we're all gonna use our restaurant manners, our restaurant voices with little kids? I mean, like I think we just have to be real cognizant of scheduling events and working with family members to create events that are realistic for your child and for everybody's child. Because you're right, it's it's separate, different. It's it it stands out in a situation like that. And nobody wants to sit at that formal table, quite honestly.

Tony 19:50

I certainly don't. So no, I don't want to sit at that formal table anyway. Yeah. When we think about like how to how to approach a hard conversation, and and we want to approach these hard conversations in healthy ways. Before you pick up the phone or we walk into the room, again, we want to remind ourselves that peace isn't the absence of conflict, it's just the presence of Christ in the middle of it. Because we can't control how someone else is going to react to our words, but we can control what the energy is that we bring into the environment. So if we can take a step back and say, God, give me a calm spirit, knowing that I'm about to walk into this house to have this hard conversation, whatever, or this room or whatever it is, give me a calm spirit, give me the words that you would have me speak so that this way it could be said in love and still advocate the the right way and still realizing that we have no control over how the other party is going to react to to our words. Again, just prepare ahead of time and know what you need to communicate. Think about the conversation ahead of time, whether it's like the day before, maybe it's on the drive, just think about what this conversation needs to look like and think about what they need to know by the time that the conversation's over. You want to be very clear for yourself, so at this point, when you leave that conversation, you're like, ah, I forgot to say this, or I forgot to say be very clear about what you need them to know. Get into that conversation, you're gonna speak calmly, you're gonna focus on love and respect, and you're going to use I statements, not you statements. Like I feel you're starting with how you feel, decide on what is non-negotiable, and what you can let go. That is huge. You have to know where you're drawing the line in the sand, what those aspects are, and and here's the thing: you can't decide those things in the heat of the moment. Like when it's emotional, when you know, especially if the conversation's not not going well, you cannot decide that in the middle of that conversation. Decide that before. So this way it's easier to stand on those on those principles.

Kristy 22:52

What I would add to that is that you don't have to communicate that either, right? It doesn't have if the conversation isn't going the way that you wish it would, or the person is not understanding or, you know, a little stubborn in in kind of sticking to their original position or whatever the case may be, you don't have to say, that's unacceptable. We're not coming. You know, you can know for yourself, like, okay, we're not getting anywhere here. And just take that with you. You can, you know, cut it short. You know, thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate that. We had this conversation, whatever it might be. And then you can go back and make plans for yourself. You know, you can get with your spouse or whatever it is, and you know, didn't go well. Maybe another conversation needs to happen. Maybe it's something that has to come kind of in stages, or maybe it's just a situation where we're we're gonna set a boundary, right? Sometimes it's about protecting your peace. You just have to, you know, you just have to know what's gonna be okay and act accordingly. Maybe it means instead of saying, yes, we would be so happy to, you know, we'll come in the morning and we'll we'll cook and then uh, you know, we'll have dinner in the afternoon and we'll play games in the evening and you know, whatever. Like maybe it's just our family will be there for dessert this year, we'll be happy to bring a pot. Like you can choose. There's a lot of customs, there's a lot of traditions, and there's the way we've always done it. But if the way we've always done it has always rubbed you wrong, if it's always been a little bit unfair or a little bit, you know, unduly tough on your kiddo, on your spouse, on your mom, it's okay to say that tradition isn't, it doesn't serve us all. Maybe it's it's a a topic that comes up, you know, and and we just say, you know, we're not we're not gonna talk about that this year. That, you know, that's ooh, that's a tough one. Let's move on.

Tony 25:03

It may be that this environment that you're now in is brand new. Maybe you're brand new parents that has a child that was recently diagnosed with Down syndrome or autism or you know, whatever it is, and you as as parents are still processing that. You're still trying to figure out what that looks like for for you and your and your family. And guess what? The traditions fly out the window at that point. Because you have to do what is best for you and your family, ultimately.

Kristy 25:48

Just because it's the way we've always done it doesn't mean that it works for everyone. And if that's your tradition and if you value it, it it's not for me to stop that, right? Continue with it, but just understand that we're not going to be able to participate. Like, no hard feelings, we won't make it. We're just we're not gonna be able to be there this year. It's such a balance, right? At the end of the day, if the event doesn't serve your your kiddo's needs, if it is just incompatible with with what's reasonable, or uh beyond that, right? If your kiddo isn't gonna have fun, I mean, it's not just about what they can do, it's not just about how long they can sit still, or you know, whether they're they're able to eat this thing or play this game. It's are they gonna have a good time? You know, and if not, it's okay to say, we're we we've are gonna do something different this year. You know, thanks for inviting us. You don't owe your kiddos' comfort or your family's comfort to protect somebody else's feelings. Having said that, uh Romans 12, 18 tells us, if it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. But sometimes it doesn't depend on you. Sometimes you've done everything you can, you've you've tried the best you can to, you know, to say it kindly, to say it bluntly, to share the information, and the other person just is not able to receive it. Or, you know, like we said earlier, it might be this was a first pass and this is gonna take some more conversations. Let let peace be the thing that wins because you can always you can always make another plan, you know, keep your kiddo out of that situation this year, or put yourself in a situation where you have more control of what happens uh, you know, with yourself and and your immediate family.

Tony 27:51

You know, having healthy boundaries actually honors God because those boundaries re reflect a clarity and a love working together because you're not called to be a doormat, and you're not called to come to everyone's rescue. Sometimes, you know, the most Christ-like thing you can do is to simply walk away and step away from from whatever situation doesn't work for you and your family. Yeah, you have to have a spirit of discernment at that point to know when to walk away.

Kristy 28:34

Yes, because it's not about attacking somebody, it's not that you're against whoever the person is, you're for your kid. You know, you're for your partner, you're for the side of right in this situation. And that's what peace looks like. Advocacy, whether it's peaceful advocacy or not, should bring peace. You know, it should bring peace to your kiddo that has struggled in the past or that where you can see a situation where they might struggle. But ultimately it should bring peace to the other side too, because it facilitates closeness, right? It it provides a path where instead of everything being a little awkward, a little difficult, when everybody's comfortable, when everybody's needs are met, that's when we can really connect.

Tony 29:24

Part of that connection is leaning on others that are within our community, right? So this means sometimes going outside of family when it comes to blood. You know, that means leaning on friends that maybe you consider family, leaning on you know, support groups and leaning on through prayer and wisdom and patience, uh compassionate heart for for you and your family. And just remember that hard conversations can be those acts of love that open doors for a deeper understanding. We've talked a lot about how sometimes hard conversations are just like step one because they don't go well. Sometimes they go extremely well because somebody's heart was open, because somebody was ready to receive a hard truth.

Kristy 30:30

Sometimes they wanted to know and they didn't know how to ask.

Tony 30:34

And that's one of the reasons why honestly, why we do unshaken, because there are a lot of awkward conversations that Christy and I have had to have with each other that most people take for granted, but we weren't afforded that luxury because mainly because of my disability or because of you know something that we had to work through. Sometimes when you're able to hear someone have a conversation, you can then say, you know, he brings up a good point, or she brings up a good point. I've always wondered about XYZ, whatever you know, whatever that is. Sometimes just opening up that space allows for that deeper understanding. We created the safe space by being willing to have the hard conversation.

Kristy 31:39

Um, there's one last scripture that I wanted to share. This is uh Colossians 3.13. It's funny. So Tony is in his seminary classes, he's learning all sorts of fancy ways to break scripture down, and he's been sharing stuff with me. But as I'm looking at this, I'm seeing phrases, right? It starts with this bear with each other, right? Bear with each other. It's it's both sides and forgive one another. If any of you has a grievance against someone, just forgive it. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. How are we so so good that we shouldn't have to forgive? You know, sometimes somebody doesn't get it, and that's okay. Sometimes through the best of intentions, there's still an awkward situation. Just forgive it. This is the world. This is not anything, it's not anything close to perfect anymore, right? It was perfect for a brief moment, and now we do the best we can in this situation to make it as as much better every day as we possibly can. And that's that's what we're at.

Tony 32:54

And if this episode has like stirred something in you, like maybe it's just brought to mind a hard conversation that you've had, and you know, there's still maybe some hard feelings about that. That's okay. That's okay. That's what we have prayer for. Go to God in prayer and bring it to him. This is us going to God and asking for discernment and how to deal with uh a difficult situation, either because of a location, an activity, particular family member or family members. And we're going to God saying, I need help in how to walk through that situation. Is there another conversation I need to have? Christy's right, when it comes to forgiveness, rarely you you say it once and then like it's all good, it's all done. Sometimes, you know, wounds come up, you know, well down the road. And sometimes we have to just say out loud, I forgive. And go through that process again, and that's okay. Sometimes it's a daily thing. You know, sometimes sometimes it's just really hard. But I I think if we if we keep in mind that it's a journey, not perfection, we can get there.

Kristy 34:37

I think at the end of the day, it's it's give grace, right? Set your boundaries, but give grace. Remember that God is with you. He's with you in every conversation, he's with you on the day of the event, you know, he's with you in the moments leading up to it when you're you're trying to figure out what you can live with, what you need to say. He's with you always. Think about, you know, whether it's related to disability or anything else, think about, you know, a hard conversation that you've been avoiding. Think about something that you've needed to bring up, that you've needed to, you know, to stand up for somebody or for something that you believe or something that you need. And think about it. Think about how you might approach, approach that this week in truth and love, as scripture calls us to do. Thank you for being with us, friends. Well, I was gonna say we're we're super stoked about the holidays coming. Some of us are super stoked about the holidays coming. We shared um today on social media a little video. Um I am the Christmas fairy. I'm so excited. I love Christmas time. It's just, it's just so happy for me. And this is just one of those times when I particularly need the Christmas spirit. I just, I could really use the peace and joy, you know. And so I've been really leaning into it hard. Tony is more of the once Thanksgiving is done, it becomes Christmas time. But guys, Thanksgiving is late. That makes a really short Christmas time, and I need every drop of it that I can get. Um, I know when I was little, it used to be that when Santa comes at the end of the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade, that's who brings in Christmas. Um let us know. Let us know your thoughts on that. Um, and in the meantime, know that we love you. Um, we're praying for you. And give some thought to this, you know, as you start making your holiday plans and thinking about whether you're inviting people to your home. Um, you know, think about maybe you could be the one who asks, you know, what accommodations would be helpful for Johnny or Susie or, you know, whatever. Um, just be mindful, right? Have that open-hearted, open-minded spirit. And if you are the one advocating for your person, go in with love, you know, uh just assume it's gonna go well, go with God, and um it's gonna be okay. Let us know how it goes. Um, if you want to talk through it, let us know. We're here for you. Um, and so until next week, guys, thanks for everything. We'll see you soon.

Tony 37:30

So let's pray. So, Father, give us a spirit of love, give us a spirit of discernment, give us the patience and peace that we need as as we do spend time with with family, and and help us have those hard conversations when and where they need to happen. With a heart of love, with a heart that is forgiving and loving and clear in the love that you have for us. We ask that you be with us and help us to see all the ways that we can be a light to those around us. And so we love you, and we thank you so much for your son who died on the cross to save us. It's in your son's name we pray. Amen. Thank you so much, guys. Hope you guys have a great day and a great rest of your week, and uh, we'll see you next time.