Kristy 0:06

Welcome to Unshaken, the podcast where unwavering faith is real life. I'm Christy, and together with my husband Tony, we dive into authentic conversations, offering biblical insights and sharing stories that inspire resilience, especially for families navigating the unique challenges of disabilities. Join us each week as we explore faith family and the journeys that keep us grounded in Christ. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Let's stand firm together.

Tony 0:39

Hello, Unshaken family. It is Tony, and I'm here with my beautiful bride, Christy. And uh welcome to another episode of Unshaken. Uh as promised, it is part two in this series for disability in the church. Just as a recap, last week was about awareness so that we can see uh the different things and the different aspects uh that affect our families uh that are dealing with disability with the hope that once you see it, you can't unsee it. And so if you haven't listened to that episode, uh here's your invitation to uh go back and definitely check that episode out. This week uh we want to um take that the next step. And so we need to go from just seeing what's going on uh to actually taking action to what we can do to help our families and to truly make our families feel included and and building churches and spaces within our churches where everyone feels like they belong. The goal of of this uh episode is to uh help equip leaders and uh change makers and families, volunteers, so whatever role uh that you're in, by the end of this episode, there'll be one little nugget that you can take with you to just start to do something. Okay. This is not about creating a vast system overnight. This is about taking one step and just moving one step closer so that we can make progress, truly be a a church body where everybody is welcome at the table. When we think about the compassion that we feel, we need to make sure that the compassion leads to and and becomes a structure so that families stay and they stick and they want to be a part of the body that they deserve to be a part of. I don't want you to get overwhelmed, I don't want you to feel like this is too big. It's not about being too big, it's about taking steps so that the structure that is built and created is there to love on all families so that things last, they grow, and again, everyone uh feels welcome um inside God's house. So the two scriptures that we have for you tonight, first one is from Matthew 25, verse 40. It says, The king will reply, truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me. And the second um scripture verse that we have for you is Ephesians chapter 4, verse 16, and it says, From him the whole body joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love as each part does its work. When we include everyone as part of the body, which includes our families that are dealing with disability, it is part of the mission that we are called to as part of the Great Commission and as part of making disciples of all nations. This mission, having all of our families included, it's not optional. It reflects the heart of Christ accessibility and making our buildings accessible and usable and workable for families that are dealing with disability, it is part of discipleship. We can have the most theologically sound churches, but if we are not making room for the bodies to be in our buildings, we're missing the boat. So we need to make sure that we make room for not only the mind of someone, but we make room for their body. Because what we see in the model of of Christ is that he doesn't separate the spiritual care from the practical care of the people that he interacts with, he meets them where they are.

Kristy 5:16

What I would talk about is it's the people, right? The the people who bring the change. You know, I agree that it's not optional and that absolute inclusion does reflect Christ. And it's not just in kindness, it's not it's not inclusion in the sense of welcoming somebody to dinner, right? It's welcoming them to be part of your family. It's it's absolute inclusion at every opportunity and every level, so that there's no part of going to church, whether it's on a Sunday or a Wednesday or a planning meeting, a training, like every person with every kind of body and mind and spirit about them should have a place in that. And it takes people at all kinds of different spaces to make that happen. So maybe you are the person with the disability in your family, or maybe you're the parent of a kiddo with a disability. In that case, speak up. You're not asking for anything that you shouldn't have. Quite honestly, you shouldn't have to ask. But we're human, right? And we're fallible. So you may have to, you may have to speak up. But do that and do it boldly, certainly with humility, but also persistence. You know your situation, you know your kiddo's situation better than anybody else. Be ready to talk about what accommodations you or your child need and also your strengths. What do you bring to the table? Because those should be part of the discussion in equal measure. Anytime we're gonna make a change in the way that we do something as a church, that we're gonna need volunteers and lots of volunteers. And not just people who are willing, but people who are willing and who are equipped. I think generally speaking, there's got to be some kind of a lead. I mean, in theory, that might be somebody on the church's payroll. It may be that the person who takes the lead on inclusivity and disability ministry is a volunteer. But I think the that that training, you know, not just in subject matter, not just in, you know, the lessons taught, or, you know, or even like here's some information about the particular disability that someone might have, but here are ways to normalize that and to um to come to that person as, you know, just as your equal, as your peer, someone who just, you know, is a little different. Like we all are a little different, you know, as sisters and brothers in Christ. And let me go back a step and say that that's really necessary. And I think it's because I think it's based a lot in fear, but it's not fear in an unkind or a bad way. It's somebody who doesn't want to embarrass somebody, who doesn't want to, you know, bring a spotlight to somebody's difference. Like people are awkward about stuff like that. When we don't know, when we when we don't understand a situation, we tend to just get a little awkward like that. And so I think training around that kind of thing for a volunteer team is absolutely critical because then it spreads to the rest of the congregation. I think that's how that's a big way that we can make change. When we're looking at bringing disability ministry or, you know, looking at inclusivity and ways to bring change around that, the pastor doesn't necessarily have to be the one to spearhead it. I mean, in fact, more often than not, I think the pastor would not be the person to do that. But the pastor, I'm gonna say, needs to lead that out from the pulpit. The the pastor has to like to set the stage and the expectation that that's where the church is going and to set a loving, thorough, competent example of disability ministry.

Tony 9:15

And we talk about how we build this out, right? Christy's absolutely right. As I've worked in this disability ministry space, one of the biggest things that I know does such a huge lift is when a pastor is willing to to teach on this from the pulpit and truly show the concrete examples of how this integrates with the mission of the church. Every church has its own mission statement, every church has its own vision statement. When a pastor is willing to get up on Sunday morning and from the pulpit show how this will help fulfill both the mission and vision of that particular church, it makes such a difference in the momentum of these things getting put into place that is so important that that happens. Now, it may not happen right away, and if it doesn't happen right away, that doesn't mean it's that we can't take steps in the right direction to start to build a a good foundation. In fact, we should take small steps to build that foundation while those things are happening, because sometimes it takes people some time to come around. We need to not just wait for someone else to do something. If there's a step that we can take, however small it is, we need to take that step. And we need to do what we can. And so when we talk about structure, there's going to be teams that do this, that do that. Christy and I have done a lot of training and a lot of education with Johnny and friends, and and there's a lot of structure that they uh talk about through their courses. One of the things that I found very helpful is to have liaisons that will handle different aspects of doing the ministry well. And so what I mean by that is you're gonna want to have a liaison that is someone that is in direct contact with families as families start to come into the church and as they start to get connected, so that this way, you know, there's there's a point of contact for families as needs come up. You're gonna want to have um a liaison or a point of contact for uh your volunteer teams as you get more and more volunteers, so that this way there's someone that is helping to coordinate schedules and and all that kind of stuff. And again, this is as you grow. These these are not things that have to happen day one, these are things that happen as you grow out in the ministry. You're gonna want to also have some sort of liaison or some point of contact with the pastoral team or the leadership team, so that if there's stuff within the church, you know, maybe a room needs to get reserved or or something like that, you know, that has to happen with the church building or some scheduling or something like that, that there's someone that is going to coordinate that with the leadership so that the leadership isn't getting, you know, 10 different messages from 10 different people, all saying different things. You know, the best way to communicate is to have that one person so that so that we're not playing telephone and we're not getting the message muddied as it's relayed from one person to another person to another person. Let's make sure that we communicate clearly so that we can be effective as we as we go forward. Training is so important, and that means like practical training for the volunteers, talk through different scenarios, talk through what it looks like to start a conversation, what it looks like to have a conversation with the person instead of just talking above them or around them. Christy has talked about on this podcast, let's presume confidence so that this way we are affirming dignity with our families and with the person that that has a disability. And again, as you grow, you're gonna want to put policies in place and and just guard roles in place to help protect the families, help protect the volunteers, and help protect the staff as you go forward. And I'm gonna say hopefully, if you get to this step, that means you've really grown. But then at some point, there may need to be a budget that is put in place for the activities or for events or for equipment or material, or praise God, if you get to that point that like it requires its own budget line. That's I mean, to me, that's awesome. So, you know, just think about that. But as these things are getting built, the wonderful I don't even want to say byproduct because I I think this is the main thing. One of the wonderful things that happens within a church as these things get built is the culture changes, the culture shifts, and it shifts in such a good way because now there's more grace being given, there's flexibility around what's happening, and learning is being transformed as well, because now it's not just learning in one lane or one model or one way, now we're learning in a variety of ways because we've gotten the flexibility through the experience, and because of the experience, we're now overflowing with grace, and how awesome would that feel like to be a church that overflows with grace because of all the flexibility and all of the things that are in place, because we went from just good intentions to a good infrastructure. And again, this is not something that's gonna happen overnight, this is something that is going to happen one small step at a time. This is where we need to protect our families because we need to be able to say, hey, if there's a small step that that you can do, take the small step and do that so that someone else can see a different small step that they can do as you come together and as all these small steps happen, something really beautiful can form.

Kristy 16:20

Something I would I would add, and I'm gonna just skip one little step back. So when Tony was talking about flexibility and learning, I have learned so much working at the school. And one of the biggest things that I've learned is that learning doesn't look any particular way. I have students who might look like they're sleeping or they're sitting on the floor, you know, completely engaged in in an activity that has nothing to do with, you know, whatever's being discussed or lectured or a video or whatever's happening in the classroom. You know, my kids have their hands busy almost all the time. We like for these things to be just productive. You know, we're we're working on fine motor skills while we're coloring or working on a puzzle or doing a sticker by number or whatever it might be. But learning just, I think you just can't count on it to look like any specific way. You know, we're used to our Sunday school classes and our worship services looking like a particular way. Once you're able to move past that where everybody needs to sit quietly at their seat and, you know, nobody should be on the floor or nobody should be making any noise, or, you know, those things, once we can let go of that, that's when we can can really start to to be a place that feels good for everybody. At first, there may be some resistance because people who are used to that, who value that this is how it's always been sort of way, they may push back a little bit, you know, um it's it's supposed to be quiet, there shouldn't be disruptions, whatever. And it's winning those that really makes the difference. Like that's how a church becomes home for everybody who shows up. And I think there's some very practical, specific things that we can do to help people become more integrated, to become more a part of the fabric of the church. One thing in particular is to begin a buddy ministry. In my heart, I think of it, you know, for middle schoolers, high schoolers, young adults, where you've got a situation where somebody comes to church and they have a disability, but they they're capable, they're completely able to participate in a typical, you know, class or or service, but they just need some support. They need somebody to sit with them, they need somebody to help them keep their body regulated and to to just act as a friend so that they're not alone, that they don't have to be there sitting in that situation without somebody that they can, you know, lean into for some emotional support. And so a buddy ministry is a great place to start, you know. And again, we're looking at choosing buddies carefully and training so that those people are equipped with what they need to be good supporting friends. A lot of churches I've seen have, they'll have like a quiet bag at the at the front of the, you know, by the door. It's usually a fabric bag and there's like a little stuffed animal and some quiet things to do in there. There might be value in adding things like slime or fidget toys, things that are um that are sort of manipulable, you know, in the hand to just to help somebody with their regulation as they're trying to sit quietly and participate in, you know, the typical way. There's a lot of situations where people need sensory input. They need specific sensory input to feel safe to feel, to know where their body is in space, to be able to participate, you know, that way. And just adding some of those particular items. Maybe it's um, like I mentioned, slime or silly putty, something that can be squished in the hand, or it might be those fidget spinners that so many kids got taken away from them at school a while back. Um, it could be like a worry stone type thing that somebody could hold or something that clicks, but just those little items make all the difference in the world. Quite honestly, they make all the difference for me. Um, I don't go anywhere in the world that I don't have something that I can hold in my hand and squish or or rub with my thumb. It just is so regulating and soothing. Maybe there's a quiet room in addition to, you know, a nursery where we would take, you know, a baby that was having a hard minute or, you know, needed to nurse or or whatever the case may be, you know, if if we're going to take a child out of the service, maybe there could be a quiet room also, so that someone who was overwhelmed. Church has a lot of, you know, music is awesome and sometimes it's loud, you know, particularly if there's a band. Maybe there's cool lights, but that can be overwhelming, off-putting, disturbing for people with, you know, sensory differences. Tony mentioned liaisons. I think that's just a huge, huge thing to have in place. Um, as he said, so that there's one point of contact for, you know, for a specific kind of need. Visual schedules, this is like, it's such an easy thing. You know, instead of just having words, have a have a picture that indicates, you know, what's going to happen. It makes all the difference for I think all of us, everybody feels better when we know what's going to happen next, when we understand what the schedule is, and first this and then this. Adding those pictures makes that something that works for so many more people than just having the words emergency plans. I mean, certainly big picture emergency, you know, plans if something would happen, if somebody would get hurt, whatever. But individually with families, you know, mom, when would you want us to text you? To come out of the service. What if this happens? What if, you know, specific needs need to be met? And what would you like us to handle and what would you like to handle on your own? Like that kind of thing. I think all of that is really important to the feeling of safety for people who are leaving their kiddo, you know, in the hands of somebody else. And especially in a situation where it's a child with a disability that maybe hasn't had the best experience before when mom and dad, you know, left them with, you know, someone were in a situation where they should have been included and made to feel safe. But, you know, start small, right? All of these things don't have to happen at once. I mean, once we start with these little things, you know, there's plenty of big things. I think about where is the elevator with regard to where the bulk of the handicapped spaces are, are the bathrooms big enough? Like those are major structural issues, but these are little things that we can do, you know, without just without a whole lot of like disruption. It just, we could just add them in. Adapt as you're able to. I guess the the last thing I would say about this is, you know, be proactive. Of course, if there are families already at your church where there's a specific disability and there are specific accommodations that need to be made, make those. But also be mindful of, you know, of other situations that might arise and don't be caught flat-footed if a family where someone has a disability like that, you know, comes to you. Be ready for that if you can. I think that's just a very loving way to welcome somebody.

Tony 23:38

You know, thinking about this from a leadership perspective, like Christy was saying, we're gonna start small. So think about one step, do that well. So, for example, a quiet room with a trained volunteer can revolutionize, you know, a family's Sunday morning so that they know that that they have a church that they can go to and belong to, versus having to hop from one church to a to another church to to another church after every meltdown. How big is that to just have one room, one volunteer that understands how to help, you know, a family that just may need a minute just to get somebody's body regulated or whatever whatever the case may be. I have a heart for pastors, I have a heart for leaders. I see you guys, I know that for many of you, you feel like your plates are already overflowing. Do not burn yourselves out. This is not about second guessing yourselves. Work together. If you're not sure what to address, let me give you this quick tip about where to start. If you're not sure what families might be visiting your church, like maybe you haven't seen any families yet that are dealing with one particular disability or or another, but you know they're there, they're just not coming to church. So what I would do is I would jump online, jump into your favorite church engine, and just type in the name of your county and disability services, and then skip all the sponsored stuff. That's all that's all garbage anyway, and look at the first five or first yeah, I would say the first five real results. Whatever those first five services are, those are are the families that are typically going to be in your immediate area. Because families go where the services are. If you're not sure what families you have in your area because they just haven't visited your church yet, that's a good way that that's a good way to find out. And then once you know that information, now you can sit as a team and you can come up with an outreach plan that is tailored to that particular segment.

Kristy 26:15

And if you do have families in your church that are dealing with disability, that are living with disability on a daily basis, and you don't know how to help, just ask. Dollars to donuts. Families would rather you ask. People don't expect you to know, and there's no way for you to know until until you do ask. There's no shame in that. You don't have to be embarrassed for not knowing um, you know, what the situation might be or what somebody's limitations are or what might be helpful. Just ask. Nobody's gonna be, you know, put off because you went up and said, you know, hey, I noticed that you, you know, you walk with a crutch. Are there things that we could be doing to support you? Like, or, you know, do you mind me asking, what is your disability? I would love to to learn more. Like, that's gonna be so welcome. Um, so don't let that be what stops you, just that that awkwardness. Don't let that be what stops you.

Tony 27:10

I absolutely love that question. When someone says, Hey, can you tell me uh about your disability and and about how it affects you and about I love having that conversation and I love being able to just talk through that because I think understanding kills fear, and when we kill fear, now we can move into compassion, grace, love, friendship, all of that stuff because we got rid of fear. Fear is the greatest obstacle, inclusion, connection, because it's in the way. When we ask questions, we then promote understanding, and understanding naturally beats away fear when we're able to understand each other. So, yes, absolutely, ask questions.

Kristy 28:01

And I think irrespective of disability, the most productive thing you could ask is how can I best support you? Whether there's disability involved or not. You know, maybe it's just a somebody that's having a tough season, um, you know, maybe a grief situation or a job change, or I mean, like there's any any number of reasons why people would would want to be supported. And as members of the body of Christ, where every part is integral and is as important or you know, as all the others, how can I best support you? That I think that's probably one of the best things you could could ask, you know, if you've got a family where where it appears that someone maybe is on the autism spectrum, how can I best support you? You're never gonna you're never gonna go wrong with that.

Tony 28:51

I would also encourage, especially with church leaders, do not try to do this on your own. Number one, if you've got multiple pastors on set on staff, work together with this, but then also reach out to others that are in the disability space. I would be so overjoyed if I got emails from pastors all over the country saying, hey, can we talk? Yes, we can. Yes, we can. I will I we can we can have a phone call, we can jump on a Zoom, we we can do all kinds of things. I would be overjoyed to speak to you know pastors or other leaders in in churches to be able to help brainstorm ideas or think about you know first steps or next steps, or hey, we we've done this piece, but we're running into a wall with XYZ. You have any ideas? Let's talk. Let's please let's talk about that. Yeah. There there's so many ways that that and there's so many organizations that are willing to help. So please reach out.

Kristy 30:08

It may start with you, you know, pastors, leaders, but it doesn't all have to rest with you, and it doesn't, it certainly shouldn't end with you, even before you have any sort of ministry in place in support specifically of people who live with disability. Engage with everybody you can, but empower your team, other pastors, your ministry assistants, your, you know, anybody. I feel like this should be something. This should be one of those, you know, where everyone has some sort of training on this. So that no one who comes to the church, you know, hurting is gonna be hurt more by interaction with somebody from that church.

Tony 30:49

Let me be very clear with this. Burnout does not prove devotion. That's a fact. So do not burn yourselves out because here's the thing. If you have a heart for this and you burn yourself out, guess what? That's one less person that has a heart for this that is now not doing something that maybe our families need. So share the responsibility, have guardrails, have have limits to to your time and to your energy, because we don't need anyone burning out and asking for help, reaching out for help. That's not weakness, that's actually stewardship. When you reach out and you ask for help, or you share responsibility and you share leadership and you share roles, that's stewardship of the resources that God has given you, has given me, has given us all to be able to do this together as one body. And that's what He's called us to do. He's called us to do this together, not alone. He's called us to do this together, so let's do it together. Share it and let's normalize doing it together, because then we're gonna rise up the entire church, and that's gonna be a blessing to everyone, disability or not.

Kristy 32:17

As you get started, you know, and whether you're the pastor or a volunteer or regular attender, you know, whatever your role is, as you pursue this, you may encounter some resistance. There's gonna be questions around cost, you know, we don't have the budget for that. We can't, we can't go buying a bunch of, you know, special equipment. It could be around disruption. Our services are always running a certain way, we stay quiet. How are we supposed to make those adjustments? Like you, you're gonna get all kinds of pushback, liability. That's another one. Uh, you know, we we can't be liable, we don't know, you know, what that that person might be capable of doing, whatever. This feels like a lot, we're we're still growing, we're not ready. You're gonna get all kinds of this stuff. And I guess my best advice would be to bring your data, right? Share stories uh where you've you've seen success, where maybe your family has had success, or you know, maybe you're someone who's asking, you want to volunteer, you want to spearhead this. Maybe someone in your family has a disability and you've seen, you know, certain things work, or you know that a certain you know change would make a huge difference. Share those stories, share those success stories. Be patient. Do research together. Just say, you know what? Like I hear you, I, you know, I, your fear is is real. I I get it. Let's do the research. Let's make some phone calls, let's do some internet research, let's call our insurance people, you know, do the research and get real data to make those decisions. Because once you get the data, the pushing back has to stop because the data supports the ministry. And above all, pray, you know, pray before you, pray before you ask. Just pray that this is something that comes to fruition in in your church. If if that's the only, and I don't mean only in the sense of like that it's small because it's huge, but if the only step you take is to pray that people who live with disabilities would be engaged as full members of the body of Christ at your church, that's huge. Just cover this thing in prayer. Cover the families, cover the volunteers, cover the future ministry, because our God is a very big God. And he can do very cool things. You know, you want to talk about the least of us. I think society a lot of times treats people who live with disability as the least of us. And that's where God shows up best. Um, so take it to him, pray without ceasing, just keep praying about it.

Tony 35:01

I I think the the biggest thing, especially when you're when you're possibly dealing with some pushback, you can't argue people into compassion. I think Christie's hit the nail on the head, you've got to lead with those stories. I think the personal stories are the biggest thing that we can do. And just having that calm sort of confidence that we are gonna be able to impact families in a positive way, at the end of the day, having you know a good plan ready so that this way you're not just laying an idea at somebody's feet, you're coming with an idea and then some structure so that they know it's not a blank whiteboard that they just have to figure it out. You're giving them something to start with. It ultimately may not look like what you started with, but I think having that start pulls a lot of people out of that paralysis of not wanting to get started. And so, what is like measuring progress look like?

Kristy 36:10

Yeah, how do you know if you're getting there? How do you know when you've gotten there? Can you get there ever?

Tony 36:16

Right. When I did events for our families, you know, I would always meet with with our volunteers before the start of the event, and I would always tell the volunteers when the people leave, if they can't wait to come back, we've done our job. So measuring progress is do the families stay? Do they want to come back next Sunday? Measuring progress when it came to volunteers is did I hear volunteers say to me, I can't wait for the next event. Please let me know because I want to do it again. When you have volunteers that are chomping at the bit, wanting to help out again and again and again, you know that you've hit something.

Kristy 37:04

When you've got teenagers that want to include their friends. Yes.

Tony 37:08

Yes. Because all of that, too, is gonna increase that feedback, and that's gonna help you make things better. Don't be afraid of feedback, encourage that feedback because that feedback is going to help you make it better, it's gonna help you grow it, it's going to make things the way that that God is asking us to make it as as we grow the body. The obvious one is participation grows. Your one classroom that has five kids that you're serving becomes 10 kids, becomes 15 kids. Oh my gosh, we need a second classroom so that so that we can you know we can love on all these kids well. So the ultimate metric is just faithfulness, just showing up, being available for God to use in whatever way that He's calling you to be a part of this process. Please don't hear that it's all about numbers because it's not. If you're able to help one family each Sunday, that's enough. The goal is not to build a flashy program, it's about helping your church look more and more like Jesus. We are called to be more and more like him. That that is our ultimate goal is to look more and more like him. How we welcome all of our families, regardless of disability or not.

Kristy 38:42

Imagine this. Imagine that your church, wherever you go to church, imagine that in every service there are people with any kind, you know, of disabil disability situation as part of their family. They live with, you know, maybe it's a physical disability, maybe it's, you know, maybe it's cognitive, maybe it is sensory motor. Like there's just people who are part of your worship situation for whom the learning looks any kind of way. You know, every committee has families who live with disability. Every table where people gather around to meet and plan has someone who lives with disability as part of that table. The youth ministry, the senior adult ministry, the young married ministry, across the board, all the ministries, all the Sunday school classes, everywhere you look, you see a representation of all of the people. People who live with disability, people who themselves have carried a disability, the families of people who, you know, who have that situation, they're participating as fully and as comfortably and as beloved as you participate at your church. When there's no difference, although you know we need to need to take individual people's needs very seriously, the difference should be irrelevant. We are all equal parts of the body of Christ. And when you go to your church and you see that, when you look around and that's how it looks and that's how it feels, imagine, just imagine how joyful that is. Imagine, gosh, it makes me have goosebumps to think about that situation where it's just one big table and everybody sits at it. And imagine how Jesus feels about that. Imagine how he looks, you know, looks down at it and sees that. Like that's what he wants. That's his body really truly being whole. And we have the power to make that happen. Are there obstacles? Yes. Is it easy? No. Is it meant to be easy? No. He said love one another. Love means love. It doesn't mean feel it, it means do it. And it is, it is our responsibility, our pleasure, our privilege to come alongside families who live with disability and love them as a verb, to befriend them, to check on them when they're not there, to truly enmesh them in the body of Christ, just as we are enmeshed in the body of Christ. What a cool mission. Like what a very cool thing to work toward.

Tony 41:29

Hopefully, this is something that you're just excited to be a part of. We want you to be excited to be a part of this. I know I said it before, but I'm gonna say it again. We are here, we want to be a part of the process and help as much as we can. Please reach out to Christy, please reach out to myself. We are here, we want to be a part of this. That's part of what unshaken makes unshaken.

Kristy 41:57

Yeah. We can help. We we may be able to help ourselves, but also we're aware of resources. Like we can connect you, we can help in in practical ways. We're able to direct you to people who can truly help put this into action.

Tony 42:15

We say at the at the end of the intro, every single week, we say let's stand firm together. We mean that. That's part of this. We want to stand firm together with you. And we want to cheer you on every step of the way. Again, I hope that this has been an encouragement. If you have questions, please reach out. We're here. Please share this episode because again, we want to reach as many families, as many churches, as many leaders, pastors, you name it, we want to reach them. And let's just grow this thing out like wildfire.

Kristy 42:51

One other thing I would say is if these last two episodes have been a little bit different, if they've been a little bit more practical. And if this is something that you enjoy, if this has had a lot of value to you, let us know so that we can can take steps to bring you more content like this. And if you haven't liked it, let us know that too. You know, we're we're all in this together and we want to know. We want to know what you need, we want to know what you like, what you value, what you want, what you crave, and what kind of support we can provide to you.

Tony 43:22

Absolutely. Let me pray us out. Father, we we come before you. Father, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for your son, who was such a perfect model for how to live this out and what to do. So, Father, thank you so much uh for your son for so many reasons. Father, give us the courage to start if we haven't taken a single step, and if we have taken steps already, give us the courage to to keep going. This is not an easy path, but we know it is a path worth taking. So, Father, give us strength, give us wisdom, and then give us the humility also to learn so that we can do things even better. Help us to be united as we go forward and and reach out to each other and share the burden. Help us to just be a united church so that no one has to carry any of this alone. Father, we love you and we are so thankful that we can come to you in a in such a a bold way, but we do it because we want to ultimately point more people to you. We want more people to be at your table, to be in your house, and to be sharing a relationship with you. So we thank you, Father, for all of this, and it's in your son's name that we pray. Amen. Amen. Hope you guys have a great day and a great rest of your week. We'll see you next time.

Kristy 45:09

Bye, friends.