Kristy 0:06

Welcome to Unshaken, the podcast where unwavering faith means real life. I'm Kristy, and together with my husband Tony, we dive into authentic conversations offering biblical insights and sharing stories that inspire resilience, especially for families navigating the unique challenges of disabilities. Join us each week as we explore faith family and the journeys that keep us grounded in Christ. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Let's stand firm together. Hi, Unshaken Family. It's Kristy here with Tony. Something that we have been talking about this week is discipleship. And so, as always, I want to bring it to you guys and kind of just talk about it here, explore it a little bit. Um, starting with what we mean by it. I think when most of us hear the term discipleship, we think about someone who's sort of a mentor, uh, maybe within the church, somebody who's a maybe a little more mature of a Christian than us. Maybe they're older, maybe they're younger, but just their faith might be more robust or longer, sort of a guide, someone who encourages, who challenges and brings growth in the other person that way. And I don't think any of that is wrong. I think all of that is parts of it. Sometimes it really does look like somebody that walks alongside you that has been in a place that you have been on now and they've seen it before, like they're sort of an old hack at it. It could be a specific life season. Maybe it's around marriage and Christian ways to do marriage and to live out those relationships. Or maybe it's around parenting, raising kids, could be around suffering or disability, some of those tougher things. Maybe the person who's being discipled is someone who has a new diagnosis or has had an accident and is is newly disabled, or just has had a really rough time. I think a lot of people with illness or or disability, or I mean, really, even without it, we just have times where things are just tougher. Um, maybe it's pain or something along those lines. And so somebody who has lived through that before, a Christian that has lived through that before and kind of come out the other side in a good place, is a great person to sort of lean into that and help the other person through it. It could be around leadership, could be around like work situations or leadership in the home. But I think all of these things, no matter if it's a topic-relevant discipleship or if it's just general Christian discipleship, what it all is, is learning to follow Jesus more closely. It's becoming like him more and more every day across time. A person can go to church, can listen to the sermons, take notes, they can listen to worship music and, you know, subscribe to every cool Christian podcast like this one, fill out a devotional book every single day. They could do all of these Christian type things. They could know the scriptures and have the very best of intentions and still not feel changed by a relationship with Jesus. I guess what I'm getting at is that we can know about Jesus without really following him, without picking up our cross and following him like he asked us to. Information is important, right? The facts are important, but that's not what it's all about. What I would ask now, and I'm gonna ask Tony to address this because he's he's got a good way with this, guys. What actually does change us?

Tony 3:56

What changes us is trusting in Jesus, following him in our real day-to-day lives. It's in the surrender of self and moving into true obedience to him. That means saying no to self and saying no to our own selfish ambitions, and sometimes that even means saying no to some good things because you know that Jesus is calling you to do some other things, it's being shaped over time, it's learning to be faithful, and it's growing in that faithfulness. God does this through Scripture as we do study scripture, as we do gain in that head knowledge, but it's not just about what's in your head, it's also about what's in your heart. The reason why that that this is such a big distinction is because unfortunately, guys, Satan has more head knowledge about Jesus than we do. He's more of an expert on scripture than we are. Trust me. He knows all the scripture and he will use scripture against us to try to trick us and fool us into doing things that God does not want us to do. It truly does have to be a heart transformation that comes from the inside out. And so healthy discipleship can look like walking with other mature believers, good and wise Christian friendships, people who both lovingly encourage, but also people who lovingly correct us and challenge us, people who help point us back to Jesus. No one here is perfect, and that includes myself, that includes Kristy. We all need people in our lives that are going to help point us back to Jesus. We need to recognize that having someone that is going to disciple you is not someone that's gonna play Mr. or Mrs. Fix It, and they're certainly not going to replace Jesus. A true, healthy discipleship relationship is one that is constantly pointing towards Jesus. That's where we need to stay focused, is on Jesus.

Kristy 6:37

This is something I've been having to be really mindful of. A lot of us sort of unintentionally treat faith like Christian self-improvement. It's not about me being better in a worldly sense. It's me being made better because I am being made more like Jesus. A lot of times we would say, like, oh, I want to be calmer, I'm very stressed, I'm very, this is a tough time, or I want to worry less, be a better parent, communicate better, be nice, be kind. Like it could be anything, right? A tough time of struggle. I've been undisciplined in some of the choices I've been making. They're all like it could be any of these things. And all of those things are important, but discipleship is bigger than any sort of just behavior change. Um, and I know that I mentioned early on a lot of these situations, right, around parenthood or marriage, work. It's not that the that a topical discipleship can't be relevant because it can, because I don't think there is any aspect of life where we couldn't and shouldn't grow more like Jesus, parent in a in a way that honors him, be married in a way that honors Jesus. So to say that, you know, I just want to be a better parent, well, not so much, but to know that I want to open my heart and my soul, my mind, my whole self to doing everything more like Jesus and finding someone who I have, you know, a season in common with who could support me in that. Heck yeah. But at the end of the day, it's not just like refining your behavior, making better choices. It's it's actually becoming more like Jesus. If I could talk about what that looks like, it would be more like traits, right? It would be humility, someone who is just super humble, obedient. It addresses things like trust and love, surrender, giving over things that are not pleasing to him, that are not good for us, and giving grace to others in those situations where things happen maybe that are that are not good or not ideal in hard times, right? In hardship or in those difficult seasons, being more like Jesus ultimately brings steadiness. It makes us, I guess it makes us less vulnerable to, you know, to those waves, to the winds, the things that come. It helps us to be rooted and and stable.

Tony 9:06

What does this look like in in practical terms? I always want to start with scripture because there's no way around it. We have to go back to not just reading God's word, because we can read the Bible a hundred times in our lifetime, but are we letting the words sink in and actually reshape the person that we are, be able to work through what scripture means not only when the words were written, but also how they apply to us today.

Kristy 9:45

I think uh there was a time, this is several years ago now, and I probably have mentioned it because it was really one of those pivotal times in my life. But I was driving in the car one day and I was whining and complaining to my husband on the phone, kind of talking about how I kind of didn't feel super connected with God and that I don't feel worthy very often of the gifts and the grace and salvation and all of the beautiful things that he does for us. And Tony said to me, he said, it might help if you were in your Bible more. And then he's like, I'm so sorry, that sounded so rude. I, you know, I didn't mean it like that. I hope this didn't hurt your feelings. But it didn't. What it did was put on a light, like it was one of those, like in a cartoon, like bing! And I was like, holy cow, he's so right. And it sent me into a season that has lasted since then of being in my in my Bible or at least, you know, online or in an app every day. And it really has changed the quality of my relationship with God. Um, I'm still working on the worthiness thing, but I'm growing there. It points to just a sort of a discipleship moment with Tony around scripture.

Tony 11:02

Scripture is one of those things that I have learned to truly guard. I am wrapping up my Mdiv. Sometimes when you're in seminary, it can be some of the the driest times that students have in their walk, just because the nature of seminary, you're in the Bible all the time. It's really easy to allow the homework and the study that you're doing for classes to replace the devotional time, the intimate time that God wants with you each and every day. I really have to be intentional about reading scripture that has nothing to do with my classes. And intentionally studying something that has nothing to do with my classes, so that I truly am getting alone with God and focusing on, you know what, God, I just want to spend time with you. I don't care what else is going on, I don't care what else I have going on or what else is on the schedule, I just want to spend time with you in your word. Yeah.

Kristy 12:21

Heart work and relationship work, not homework.

Tony 12:25

Right. I believe that when I've done that and I've done that well, and I've not always done that well, but I do believe that when I have done that well, that it actually has made the seminary study better and easier because I'm in a better place mentally and emotionally and spiritually, because I've made that piece of my relationship with God a priority. But beyond scripture, and we talk about all the time on this podcast, prayer that needs to be such a natural thing that it's as natural as breathing. If you're not spending time truly communicating and listening for God's direction and guidance, then all you're doing is accumulating head knowledge. Are we looking to pray to communicate and to have that daily communion with God? And also there needs to be a time of waiting. And I know for many of us, myself included, waiting is probably the hardest thing to do. Because when we're being formed and when we're in this discipleship process, it takes time. It's not instant. And it's not meant to be instant. For those of us that are living with a disability, or maybe you're caregiver for someone who got a disability, or just life will throw hardship at you. Maybe there's a strain in the marriage, maybe there's disappointment, maybe there's a chronic struggle or chronic pain. Hardships are going to make the discipleship process hard. But that doesn't mean that's that it's not worth it. Speaking of things that are worth it, part of the discipleship process is also going to be correction. And none of us like to be corrected, but it's part of the process. And when we are corrected, when we allow ourselves to be corrected, it's showing God that we're willing to be shaped and molded and refined into the person that He has called us to be. The most important part of that shaping and that refining is to do it within a community. God is not calling us to be Lone Ranger Christians. That's not what we're called to. We are called to be a part of a community. That could be a small group, that could be being a part of a church body, certainly, that could be part of a a dad group or mom group, uh, someone that is in the same season of life that you're in to help walk with you through whatever it is that you're going through. Because when we're in that community, we're able to be encouraged and encourage others. That community is going to challenge us, that community is going to strengthen us, that community should, if it's healthy, help to keep us rooted, forgive the pun, but Unshaken in Christ.

Kristy 15:56

I love it.

Tony 15:57

You know, and lovingly speak the truth when correction needs to happen. We heard a speaker probably what a little bit over a year ago now say that you are best able to help the person you used to be. That's a big part of discipleship. Those that have walked in the season that you are currently in sometimes can be those that you can lean on as far as discipleship because they've already been down the hard road that that you're in. We need to make sure that when we think about discipleship, we're thinking about healthy relationships that are going to continually point us to Jesus.

Kristy 16:48

That's a good point. And it has me thinking about getting it right and feeling the cost. I think that is part of getting it right. If discipleship feels great, you're probably not doing it right. It can be costly, it can be difficult. Like Tony was saying earlier, we have to surrender control, right? And I think that's probably the hardest piece of it for so many of us is laying down the control and saying, okay, Jesus, I want to be more like you. And that means so many things might be different. I saw a pastor give a sermon where they were up with a backpack full of giant, like heavy, heavy rock, really heavy. The illustration was the pastor would throw down a rock. God, I'm gonna work on my leadership. I'm not proud of what I've been doing. Please help me. I'm gonna give this to you. And then boom, this rock goes down on the floor. And it this happened over and over until there's no rocks in the backpack. And then we kind of talked about the difference between a 70-pound backpack and a backpack that weighs a pound and a half because of the fabric that it's made of and ultimately how how much easier it is to carry. But you don't get there if you don't throw the rocks out. And so many of us are so stubborn about letting control, like just turning over things and letting go of that control. It's around pride. You have to let your own pride die. It's not something that goes with Jesus. Like Tony said, accepting correction. I think that's another important piece with love. We have to receive it with an open heart, but the discipler also should be giving it with a loving heart and just truly with the intention of pointing us back toward Jesus. It's not always comfortable. We have patterns and habits, just rhythms through our day that we typically follow. And it might mean that all of that goes by the wayside. If your pattern is to stop at the bar and have 19 beers on your way home every day, that's probably something that's gonna change. If your pattern is to, you know, hang out with maybe the wrong crowd, that pattern is probably gonna change too.

Tony 19:04

We think about patterns that have to change. Jesus over and over said, Follow me. We have to follow him in what we decide to do with our lives. But also there's an intimacy that comes with truly following him. Jesus mentions in John 15, he says, I am the true vine. And so many illustrations are around farming and why? Because most of the people that he was talking to were farmers, they worked the land, so it was imagery that they could understand. But the one piece that I want to just focus on and key in on is John 15 5, where he says, I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever abides in me, and I in him, there that will bear much fruit. For apart from me, you can do nothing. It's truly be connected to me. And I think that that's so important. And I think that when we are truly connected, those are when the patterns are going to change. You know, Jesus never says to us, hey, come to me when you've got it all figured out and you're all squeaky clean and and you're perfect. No. Because guess what? If that was the case, we would never come to Jesus because we're never going to be perfect. But Jesus says, Come to me as you are, and then as you are walking with Jesus, you are going to figure out those things that need to change, and a good discipleship relationship is going to help you not accuse you, not guilt you, not make you feel bad, but a good discipleship relationship is going to help you walk through those things and walk through those patterns that Jesus is ultimately going to change from the inside out. Those things are so important as we're talking about this discipleship process.

Kristy 21:23

I guess what I would add to that is these patterns they they took some time to put in place, right? They're not going to change overnight. You know, just like we talked about an episode or so back, I think we talked about like that middle time when the investment that you've made and the hard work is just like it's been so consistent and so steady, but the results aren't showing up. And discipleship is one of those things that goes like that, right? In the beginning, you know, if you can work really hard for a long time and and maybe not have the the life changes yet. you know, that you want to see that, you know, if that are truly what, you know, what God has in mind. But that doesn't affect the relationship. The relationship is never, it's never something that he's going to withhold, you know, because you're not quite there yet. He just always wants to be in relationship with his children. Before our own feelings and our own patterns catch up, we need to just obey. We need to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. But we also need to do those right things knowing that he is right there with us. He's not waiting until that season is done. He's right there with us doing the hard work. It can feel tough, right? All this can be very hard. It's not punishment, not in any way. It's shaping. And, you know, it's like the um the the vine and the branches um you know that Tony was talking about, Jesus also talks about pruning that and clipping it and cutting it. And that can't possibly feel good. But it makes good. I have uh gardenias in the yard and man they bloom it looks like popcorn just overnight it gets all these blooms on the, you know, on the little bushes and whatever. But once that's done, when it's all you know said and done, we clip it all back and it looks like a pile of sticks there in the yard. But if we didn't do that, we wouldn't get these flowers every year. It wouldn't bloom like that. It would just be, you know, the sticks and leaves, which is alive, it's it's okay, you know, but it's those flowers that we're looking for and that only comes with the pruning, with the clipping. Even in that season where we are being pruned and it probably does sting. Jesus is right there walking with us in that process too.

Tony 23:47

I hope in all of this you're starting to see the common thread and that's relationship. It's relationship with Jesus but it also is relationship with those that are around us. It could be someone that is older that can walk with you through whatever season you're in because they have been there before. Sometimes it can be a friend that maybe they're around the same age as you but they're wiser than their years. It can be an intentional conversation here or there that just moves you forward. There can be and honestly there should be some accountability. There should be prayer there should be someone who is there that is lovingly challenging you and encouraging you. The thing about all of this is it doesn't have to just be one person. This can be a whole group of people and honestly it probably is healthier if it is a group of people you've got a very specific person that is your accountability partner but then you've also got maybe two or three people that you are intentional about praying with you've got others that are they're gifted in the encouragement and they're always lifting you up they're always encouraging you. Maybe there is a small group that you know if you're a parent of like little ones you know maybe you're a part of a small group of parents of little ones that are walking through that same season. Sometimes the discipleship is formal where you and another person have decided we're going to walk for a season together with the intention of discipleship. And sometimes it's not sometimes it's just the people that we are around in different ways and different forms are a part of our discipleship process in the different ways that we interact with them as we move through life. If you're not in discipleship Kristy how does this look if you're not in discipleship but you want to be discipled

Kristy 26:12

I think if there's you know there's any number of entry points starting with prayer on your part to for wisdom to know who to seek to know when you found them that it would be true and loving and and truly focused on Jesus you could ask God to show you people that you can trust you know you would want to stay connected potentially to your church or if you don't have a church to to find one and become part of that so that you have that sort of support. You want to look for people that would be just constant but you know very consistent and humble people that are in their Bibles that are rooted in scripture and you know not just reading for the sake of reading but reading for the sake of connection and relationship you would want to have a very open mind, be teachable like your defensiveness is going to want to fall away like here's the thing I I feel like that defensiveness is probably the biggest hindrance to to all of us because you know because our our ways are comfortable or because we you know felt like we came to them by you know appropriate means or for I mean for any number of reasons but um but that falls away. So yeah be teachable. The last thing I would say is that it doesn't necessarily have to be super formal. It could be a very informal relationship. It can look like any which way you know it could be something as simple as you know the people who are around you that you that you didn't even know were Christian, you know, until you start poking around and you know and and prayerfully God points them out to you. I think what we haven't talked about is um what it's like to be a a good discipler.

Tony 28:00

Someone that is going to be a good discipler is is someone who should be humble, who should be trustworthy and rooted in in truth which you know obviously starts with scripture someone who is mature and grace filled and willing to correct lovingly because again we're not no one here is perfect and and even as a discipler we're going to make mistakes.

Kristy 28:30

What might that look like like what does that sort of loving correction how does that look

Tony 28:37

It's gonna be in how you are able to speak into someone's life are you doing life with the person that you are discipling to be able to see patterns or things that you know maybe aren't necessarily bad in the moment but can lead to bad things right so hey have you read your Bible today oh no I haven't read it today okay you know no problem and but then like you know the next day have you read your Bible today? No I haven't really read today. Okay and next day have you read your Bible today? No I haven't read okay now we're getting into a pattern now it's like hey would you like to read together would that be helpful to reestablish the pattern right so again there's no guilt it's just let's read together you're not even mentioning man you're off track you haven't read in three days what you know what's wrong with you instead you're inviting them into the process and in a way that can bless both of you because if you're reading together now you can share perspectives you can share hey what what did you get out of this passage that we just read together you know and and now you're learning from each other and now you're both growing in your discipleship to Jesus

Kristy 30:09

Sounds like grace it sounds like it sounds like support right it sounds like like all of the positive things without condemnation or you know it's not criticism it's not even really critique it's just it's just a a another way some support yeah?

Tony 30:29

Yeah because ultimately both the person that is looking to be discipled and the person that is doing the discipling they should be chasing after Christ it's not about themselves it's about pointing people to Jesus no matter what the situation is you're both heading towards the singular goal of being more like Christ.

Kristy 30:59

Who was the first and best discipler it was Jesus I think even in being a discipler the goal is to be more and more like Jesus not just in your own you know in your own life in your own ways but in that process.

Tony 31:16

Absolutely it's and I think it's important to to mention here too make sure that if you are looking to either be discipled by someone or if you are looking to disciple someone else that there's an open conversation about that especially if you're looking for more of a formal structure it's not about just inserting yourself into someone's life without invitation because that actually can cause a lot of damage I know it's happened to me personally where I've had well intentioned guys who I love who are brothers who tried to insert themselves to be my discipler when there was no express permission to do that. And again you know that can be very damaging. Make sure that if a formal relationship desired that a open conversation and a good understanding is put in place before anything actually starts. Healthy discipleship is going to be invited it's going to be relational it's going to be welcomed it's going to be built on trust it's going to be rooted in humility and it's going to be centered on Christ not on the individual so we need to make sure that when we are participating in discipleship no matter which side we're on that it's healthy because ultimately we're trying to be more like Christ in this process I want to make sure that we all understand that this is not something that's going to feel dramatic discipleship is going to be slow. It's ordinary days it's ordinary life it's small steps of obedience it's repeated surrender of self to Christ it's faithful correction when needed it's consistent prayer it's trust it's community and it's a continuing to follow Jesus each and every day and that starts with a daily decision to follow Jesus because discipleship no matter what side you're on whether you're being discipled or you are discipling someone else discipleship is not about becoming impressive it's about becoming faithful and when we do that we understand that it's not about us it's all about Jesus Father we come before you and we just thank you so much for your son on so many levels what a model of discipleship he provided to us Father that we would just continually chase after him and that we would continually accept his invitation to just follow him that others would see Christ through us that they would see us constantly pointing to Jesus because he is worthy of it all. So Father thank you so much for your son for everything that he's done for us and ultimately for providing a way to get back to you by dying on a cross we love you father we pray these things in your son's precious name amen thank you guys so much hope you guys have a great day and a great rest of your week and we'll see you next time bye friends we love you