Kristy 0:06

Welcome to Unshaken, the podcast where unwavering faith meets real life. I'm Kristy, and together with my husband Tony, we dive into authentic conversations, offering biblical insights and sharing stories that inspire resilience, especially for families navigating the unique challenges of disabilities. Join us each week as we explore faith, family, and the journeys that keep us grounded in Christ. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Let's stand firm together. Hi, Unshaken Family, it's Kristy, and we're here with Tony. I have a question this week. I want to just kind of jump right in on this. Have you ever noticed that we can desperately want Christian community? And at the same time, we can feel completely exhausted by the process of getting it. I think we all know that community matters. We know that God didn't create us to do life alone. Sometimes, some Sundays, especially, where it's all we can do to get through the church doors. I know for me, I'm always happy to see people. I love them. I care about them. I'm it's great to know that I'm gonna run into the people that I know, but at the same time, I don't have the energy always to have six conversations before I find myself in my seat and things get started. For me, as an introvert and as someone with ADHD and just in the busyness of life, sometimes it's just a lot to even ask somebody, you know, how's it going? How's your week? I'm wondering, is this a universal thing? Is this a me thing?

Tony 1:49

There's an irony in that because the people that typically need community are often the people with the least capacity to pursue it.

Kristy 2:01

I think that wanting community and feeling overwhelmed by it at the same time, I don't think those are mutually exclusive. Where I'm going is what do you do when you want Christian community, but the doorway into it just feels exhausting.

Tony 2:19

If that question lands close to home, you're not broken because community feels tiring. Because sometimes community can feel tiring for all of us, no matter if we're introverted or extroverted, but wanting people and needing quiet can live in the same heart. God's not asking me or or you to perform for belonging, He's asking and He's inviting us to receive community and to take the next faithful step that we have the capacity for. Many people assume that if someone isn't connecting, they must not want community, but often the opposite is very true.

Kristy 3:10

I think the people who long most deeply for this kind of connection, it's it's what you said earlier. They're the ones that are carrying the heaviest loads in a lot of cases. It might be parents or caregivers, uh, it could be families impacted by disability, you know, but it could also just be introverts, uh, people that are struggling with anxiety or depression, grief, overwhelming life seasons, work is super busy, things aren't going right. I think, I just think this, I do think it's beyond me. I feel like it's gotta be universal. I just don't really hear people talk about it. That's kind of why I wanted to bring it to light here.

Tony 3:52

When we talk about Christian community, we have to remember that we're a body of Christ and we're not designed around identical capacities. And scripture reminds us of this over and over. The two that come to mind are the chapters of Romans 12 and 1 Corinthians 12, and we won't read all of that scripture, but those two chapters are so pivotal because what it reminds us is that not everyone has the same energy, not everyone is in the same season. The body of Christ was never meant to measure faithfulness by who has the most visible energy, who has the biggest personality, or who's serving the loudest. Some parts of the body of Christ are going to be very quiet, but that doesn't make it any less valuable or any less important. Some show up with a very full heart but a very empty tank because of what they're going through in their lives at the time, and and we we don't know that. So especially when we're first meeting someone, there's so much that can be going on, but that doesn't necessarily make them any less necessary to the body of Christ or any less valuable to the body of Christ. In Romans 12, starting in verse 3, for by the grace given me, I say to every one of you, do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment in accordance with faith that God has distributed to each of you. Just as each of us has one body with many members, and those members do not all have the same function. We're all made up of a body, and we all have parts, right? But those parts don't all serve the same function. So my my hands don't serve the same function as my feet do. There's different jobs, right? And so it's the same within the community of the church. So in Christ, we though many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others, we have different gifts according to the grace that God has given to each of us. I would just say each of those gifts are just really valuable.

Kristy 6:27

I love that it doesn't say that God doesn't tell us that the church is made up of all these people. He doesn't just leave it at that. He says, the church is made up of all these people and they all belong to each other. To me, like if something is mine, there's just an implication that I have responsibility for that, that I am to take care of it, I'm to be a good steward, to use it as it's meant to be used, to develop it, to take care of it. And when we're talking about people, I think some of that same stuff applies, that it's not just show up and serve alongside somebody or show up and let somebody sit next to you and sing during worship. I think it's truly we belong to each other, the people that we know at church and the people that we don't know at church, and the people that don't even know yet about church. We all belong to each other and we all need to take care of each other.

Tony 7:24

In that same vein, I love what it says in verse 9: love must be sincere, hate what is evil, cling to what is good, be devoted to one another in love, honor one another above yourselves, never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord, be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer, share with the Lord's people who are in need, and practice hospitality.

Kristy 8:00

And I think all of this as it applies to connection, to seeking connection, especially in a church or in a Christian environment, it lends itself to the larger body being open-minded, trying to seek out those that are quiet, that are maybe not as engaged, but in a loving way. For me, and I think we're going to talk a lot about this. Tony and I talked a lot about it earlier. God does want us to pursue each other and to take care of each other, but in the ways that each of us needs to be met. Just as he's talking about the variety and the differences among the parts of the body and among the parts of the body of Christ, we all have different needs also. Not it's not just what we can put in, it's also what we need to get out. And and none of us are the same there. And none of us are the same day to day or week to week there. I think that's a variable.

Tony 9:00

Just moving to First Corinthians 12. Again, this entire chapter is beautiful in addressing this as well, but towards the end of the chapter, it says it's starting in verse 21. Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is part of it. And I think the point of the scripture is that each of us has different gifts, and each of us is able to serve one another through those gifts. Even in those differences, we're still all valuable. Anybody that is in our community, there's value to them, even if we can't see it right off the bat.

Kristy 9:40

So, back to the people who most need community, but who may find it the most difficult to pursue it. Uh, we were talking about how it can be overwhelming and how in overwhelming life seasons, it can just be really difficult to reach out and to try to make those connections. And I think sometimes, just as human beings that are fallible, but also as individual churches and as the greater church, sometimes we mistake overwhelm for disinterest. I think where there are people in the situations that we were talking about, especially families that deal with disability or people who are just struggling with struggles that may not be super visible to the rest of the world. The issue is not their willingness to connect, it's their capacity.

Tony 10:33

This matters because shame often rushes in when our capacity is low. But low capacity is not the same thing as low love or low interest.

Kristy 10:46

Yeah.

Tony 10:46

Right? It's there are seasons when faithfulness looks like staying connected in small, honest ways instead of pretending that we have so much more to give than we actually really do.

Kristy 11:01

Yes, I agree with everything that you said. In my own situation, it's often a capacity issue. I don't want to get stuck here because we can't change somebody else's capacity. We can meet them better. But I do think there are other times where there are barriers between people and belonging. And some of them are relevant to that capacity situation. Some of them just are, they're just logistics that make things hard. But I want us to look at actionable things where we could maybe help. What this all brings to mind for me is Tony and I just came back from family retreat. We went to it last year. We talked about it last year too. It was incredible, you guys. Absolutely just so connective and so just God-affirming and love affirming. It was just the coolest thing. And there was a mom that we met there. We met her on like the last full day that we were there. And she had a kiddo that was having a rough time. He's got a multiple diagnoses in terms of disability. And he was having a hard morning. And so she was having a hard morning. And her instinct, and it's heartbreaking, her instinct was maybe we should just leave early. Maybe we should just go. Maybe it's better if I just get him home and take him out of here. I don't want him to mess up anybody else's time. I don't want this situation to hurt anybody else. Like, that was her absolute like trigger finger response was to just back up from it. And nobody there suggested that. Like, zero people even thought of it. It just never would cross anybody's mind. But her previous experiences in life and the world and church have taught her that that's what she should expect. That when they struggle, the world is gonna lash out and they need to remove themselves.

Tony 12:57

This was a situation that, especially at this retreat, everyone would have encouraged her to say, no, stay, please stay. This would have been like the complete opposite reaction of that. And everyone at that retreat would have loved her and her son all the more.

Kristy 13:17

Absolutely. And I think there's most situations are like that. This isn't a like a time to talk about the ways that you know churches can be wrong sometimes and be hurtful. This isn't about that at all. But really, I I bring it up to say that past experience can change the way people approach community in the moment. People have to wonder: are we gonna fit in here? Are there other people like us here? Are they, you know, have they ever seen a situation like mine before? Are we gonna be accepted? Will they understand when when something is weird, when something is loud, when something is different, through no fault of our own and without any intention, draw attention to ourselves? Are we gonna be understood? Are people gonna get it? You know, or is this gonna be one more place where we just don't fit in? You know, we don't fit in in restaurants, we have a hard time in grocery stores, you know, we've had a problem in schools, we've had a problem, you know, in doctors' offices, and is it gonna be church too? It's big, it's a big thing. And I think we're not always our most rational selves when we've been hurt. And I wonder how often that comes up and is something of a barrier.

Tony 14:26

Yeah, because safety often comes before belonging. People can't relax enough to connect until they know that they are welcome and that they are safe. And if there are kids involved, there's one more layer of, are my kids safe? And are my kids welcome? And that's something this retreat does so well. Uh, that Kristy and I just came back from is that as we are loving on the parents that that are there with their kids, these parents know that their kids are not only welcome, but they're also safe. So these parents are able to relax and and know that they are welcome as well because they know that their kids are taken care of while we're loving on the on the parents. So sometimes what may look like distance is someone trying to determine whether or not it's safe to come closer before we label someone as distant or cold or inconsistent or hard to reach, you know, it may be wise to just ask what have they had to survive? What are they currently possibly going through? Some people are not rejecting community, they're trying to find out whether or not the room that they've just entered are going to be gentle with the parts of their lives that have been handled roughly before.

Kristy 15:59

And this is not to say this is not a you know, don't go up to the disabled family in your church. Like, please don't hear that at all. You know, do approach with gentleness, as Tony said, because it could be a lot just to get there. Even beyond that, though, I think even when people feel welcome, even when they know that they're gonna be safe and whatever, I think that there are practical barriers that still can make things tough. And what comes to mind for me is, I mean, I am the most introverted person I know. I can talk all the live long day and night, but it wears me out. When my people battery is low, I just have nothing to give in that situation. You know, we go to church and we see somebody we know, and I'm already feeling a little tired, a little overwhelmed. And then we're having these, hey, how's it going? How was your week? These conversations are happening during these transitions, right? We're walking into service in the moments before they get started, or we're walking out in a sea of people and we're halfway getting separated, and somebody's waiting, you know, in the lobby, Tony's waiting for me out there, or somebody stops to get coffee, and there's people all around us pushing, you know. For others, it might be picking up kids. You know, you've got a sticker on your kid, and you're trying to, you know, hand the sticker to an adult that'll find your baby, and or we're walking to the parking lot. It's all in motion. It's never a situation where there's a tidy little place where there's no people around and you can just stand there and chit-chat for 10 minutes. So nobody's settled, nobody has a lot of time. And yet these are the moments when we're trying to connect, we're trying to like somehow build the foundation of relationships in those moments. Because how else do you do it? How do you get from it's been so nice sitting by you guys in church for the past six weeks, and our kids are the same age, and do you want to come over and have a barbecue? Like, how do you talk about that when you don't have their phone number necessarily, and it's just you know them from that setting?

Tony 18:00

The early church shared meals. There were met in homes, there was prayer, and there was daily life that happened. It wasn't about a program, right? It was you went to someone's house, there was a meal, and in the course of time, these settings are natural places for deeper relationships connecting with each other. Sometimes in our current church settings, even if it's not the case, it's easy to think nobody here wants to know me. The reality actually is that nobody really has enough time to know each other well because we are in such a hurried space. There might be a sense of bitterness, like if there has been past hurt that you have to get past. It's not that nobody cares, it may be that the hallway is just a hard place to carry the weight of real life and to try to establish a deep community in the same moment to really have those deeper connections. It requires, like Kristy was saying earlier, it requires a slower setting that isn't so hurried and frantic and maybe where there's not so much emotion.

Kristy 19:27

What you're saying, what we've we've both been circling around here, is like this lends itself to small groups. It really does. Small groups can be tough too. Okay, friends. So in our conversation about all of this, kind of as we were driving home from the retreat, Tony and I are different this way. I think some people need conversation, right? They need to meet people and have those connections before they get a bunch of information. And that's that's a Tony. Some people need information before they get a bunch of conversation. That's me. And I don't think either is wrong. But for me, like before I join a group, or before I agree to show up on a Thursday evening or a Sunday evening at somebody's house, that is not how I want to first encounter things. Like I want to know when does it meet? In my mom of little kid days, I would have wanted to know is childcare available? What kind of childcare is available? How much does it cost? Is it accessible if if you've got a kiddo with a disability or even the parent has a disability? Is this at the church? Is it at somebody's house? Any of these things? Is it gonna be discussion? Are we gonna have like some very structured, formal Bible study situation? Could there be a barbecue every third Sunday or something? I want to know how does it feel? Because for me, like knowing that up front really reduces the uncertainty when it comes to sort of diving in on a something that that could be a commitment. Like having that information makes it so much easier for me to connect. Having all that out of the way because I'm a little bit afraid. Like, what if I love these people and this is not gonna work out for my family? Like, that's rough, you know? Or even worse, what if I have to just show up there and then it's not good? Now I feel really awkward, and then I'm gonna run into them on Sunday and they're gonna be like, hey, how come you didn't come back? That just whole thing just is so rough for me. So I feel like all of this to say, a lot of churches give a lot less information than than maybe I wish I had up front. And I think really unintentionally, with truly with the best of intentions, they require people to, I guess, invest a lot of maybe social energy, you could say, just to get those details. Like you have to try it to get the info.

Tony 21:58

It was such an interesting thing. Interesting conversation because I I never thought of it that way. I've always been used to what I'll call like a uh small group Sunday. All the small groups would have like a table. New members of the church could go around to different tables and meet the small group leaders. All that uh information is then shared in those kind of settings.

Kristy 22:25

Information doesn't necessarily replace the relationship, it's nothing like that. I think it lowers the barriers to those relationships. And I think sometimes people feel like that pressure around community or connecting with community, not because anybody means any harm. People have the absolute best of intentions, but it's because they're so eager to help. And then you feel a little flooded, like a little overwhelmed by their welcome. And I'm like, whoo, Nelly, you have worn me out. Just tell me about it.

Tony 23:01

Yeah, and so clear information can be an act of hospitality for the overwhelmed parent or the caregiver or the anxious visitor. The details are not called logistics. They're the doorway in a lot of cases that make courage possible to be able to step into these new groups. And so all that to say people should be invited, people should be pursued, people should not be forgotten. But there's a flip side to that as well.

Kristy 23:37

From that perspective, people should also have the freedom to like to visit without strings. They should have the freedom to ask questions, they should be able to say no or to leave or just to try another group and come back in three weeks. People should be allowed to do those things without guilt or without pressure. I wonder how often I've done this myself, where somebody comes and tries something and then they kind of fall away and you see them and you're like, hey, we missed you. Like seriously meaning to say, like, it's not the same without you. We loved it when you were here, you know, like really meaning the best, and that person being like wanting to like chew their arm off to get out of this conversation because they feel so awkward about it didn't feel great to them and they didn't want to come back to that situation. Back to Tony's point about hospitality. Hospitality is not about pushing somebody to say yes or to commit, it's helping somebody have uh the information and the safety to choose what works for them without strings.

Tony 24:43

Curiosity is not a commitment and asking questions should not create expectations. There's a difference between a loving pursuit and subtle pressure. Jesus invited people with truth and compassion, but he did not manipulate them into closeness. Church community should feel like an open door, not a trapdoor. Too often, unintentionally, it can feel like a trapdoor. When we're looking at inviting people to small groups, we need to remember that it's not a sales event, it's an exploration event. We need to help people discover where they might belong, and then leave the final decision up to them. Because it's not about filling up slots, filling up empty spaces in in small groups, it's about shepherding people towards the places where they can be known, where they can be discipled, which is something we talked about a couple weeks ago, and ultimately where they can be supported so that they're growing in their relationship with Christ. It's not about a bigger sign-up seat. The goal is fewer people quietly wondering if there's a place for them. Because in God's house, the answer is yes, there is a place for you. No matter where it is.

Kristy 26:16

For me, and I think probably for Tony too, some of the best, like richest times of our life together have been when we were part of really close small groups like that, where our closest friends were part of uh of our small group, our life group. And those friendships have been so just so important to Tony and me. I want that for everybody. I want that for every single one of you because I know with all my heart, I know how important it is and how nurturing, how soul feeding it can be. But at the same time, Tony and I found that through friends, through people that we already knew, through people that we were already close with. In this season, where we are right this minute, we don't have that situation currently in our church. And for me, as we're looking at making some of these decisions, I would love to see there be detailed descriptions of the small groups online. You know, you look and it'll say like the title of the group, and maybe it gives you an idea of maybe it's an age-racketed group, people in their 50s, or in theory, it could be like a stage of life thing. That's really cool where you see like young married people or people with high school kids or or whatever. So that you kind of find yourself in a in a situation where the people around you have similar life circumstances. Like that's the coolest. But I want to know that up front. Those child care questions I was talking about, accessibility. Like, I want to know that stuff up front before I show up there. I want to know what are we expecting it to be like. And I would just love to know all of that before I have to make a commitment. I would love to be able to explore without having a bunch of conversations that are just draining in, you know, in times where things are heavy. Life is stressful. And the biggest thing I would I would like to see if I were the you know, the decision maker in in everything, would be for as churches train their small group leaders and even just small group participants, some of the keys of like low pressure hospitality stuff, so that people know maybe don't jump all over these people or you know, maybe don't give them what's going to feel to them like a hard time, but but for you was just a loving, you know, hey, we missed you if they don't come back or if they're out for a week or two.

Tony 28:48

I think this is something where even the best of intentions can go wrong. And I think that we need to re-examine what uh hospitality truly looks like for someone who is brand new. Because usually what happens is when someone is being trained as a small group leader, they've been a part of the church for a while. They have forgotten what it feels like to be new. And I think that remembering what it felt like to be brand new when you were just visiting the church for the first time can help in that low pressure hospitality that Kristy is talking about. And also, like Kristy was saying, I think having a lot more information online that people can know exactly what they are walking into before they walk into it is an easy win for churches. We just have to have a commitment by the the small groups to put that information out there. It's extremely helpful. And I think it also helps on cutting down some of the we miss you because now people don't have to try five different groups to find the one that they actually feel like they fit in because now if they have more information up front, they're able to make a more informed decision before even venturing out to begin with.

Kristy 30:28

Ultimately, I think as we make decisions and as we kind of go forward, there are things that we can do to make things easier on ourselves. For me, maybe just being super open about where I am in that moment. Hey, I'm so glad to see you. A little tired today, a little low energy today. Or yeah, I would love to connect, I would love to get together, but my bandwidth is a little limited right now. My calendar is pretty full this week. Can I get back to you on that? Or will you ask me again next week? Anything like that that gives the other person the impression like it's safe to ask me. It's not that I don't want to see you, I just can't in this moment. And then check back in on them. How are you? Like, you know, was it a crazy week for you too? How can I pray for you this week? I think that's one that kind of you're gonna find out how things are going for them, and then you can like take that and you can love them in a really tangible way that week, even if your own bandwidth is limited. You didn't agree to show up at their house for four hours, but we can all pray for each other.

Tony 31:35

Choose consistency over intensity because if you're listening to this and you feel like you're behind or anything like that, like start small. You don't have to become socially like fearless. Think that you've gotta change your entire personality overnight. Like that's no, don't please don't do that. It's one person, it's one place, it's one repeatable step that can allow you to be more faithful and sustainable as you go forward and as you are looking for the community that you need. When we're in the small groups, belonging uh often grows through repeated presence more than dramatic moments. You're not gonna feel deeply connected the first time you show up, but the ordinary moments give trust a place to grow roots so that we can feel more connected as time goes by.

Kristy 32:46

I could not have said it better. In summary, let consistency do the work, more so than intensity in terms of time and and what have you. Absolutely. I think that's kind of the best plan. Look for for places that work for your family, look for places that make sense for you. Maybe places where you control the amount of of yourself that you share while still sharing your your time and your talents. I think maybe those more organic opportunities are a better pathway in for you. All this to say, start smaller than you hoped you would start. It doesn't necessarily mean shallow, right? It just means smaller. You don't have to have unlimited social energy. You don't have to be somebody who is all in in order to belong to the body of Christ. If you do, that's great. If if you absolutely are, you know, all in, like that's awesome. And I thank God for people that have that energy and that spirit about them. You know, and I think it's okay to know that, like to work up to that, right? To to dip your toe in and know that as the seasons of your life change and as your circumstances get a little easier, you'll spend a little more time. And maybe in six months or a year or 15 years, you'll be one of those all-in people, or maybe not. Maybe you'll just be somebody who loves quietly, you know, and serves in the shadows. And if that's your role and that's where you're comfortable, that's fine. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, and it doesn't have to be as big as as we dream it could be in order to be a really good start.

Tony 34:25

And the body of Christ is not just reserved for extroverts or leaders or greeters or the people who are able to work around like you know, like some people can. You belong to the body of Christ because Jesus has made you his and placed you in his body. The next faithful step towards community isn't working the room, it's letting one trustworthy person come just a little bit closer. Telling one person the truth about where you are, it's staying just five minutes longer to have that one conversation and not such a frantic pace. It's asking for prayer instead of disappearing. Small steps are still steps towards community. You can long for community and still feel tired by the time you get to the doorway into that community. The good news is that belonging to the body of Christ was never meant to depend on being the most social person in the room.

Kristy 35:48

With that, I don't think there's anything I can add. So with that, Tony, will you pray us out?

Tony 35:55

Sure. We hope that this is something that has encouraged you, and if it has, please share this episode with one person today. Let's pray, guys. Father, we come before you today. We are so thankful that you have made us a part of your body. And you've made us to be one with you in the body of Christ. Father, thank you for the gifts and talents that you have uniquely given each of us to function as one body. Thank you so much for the community that you place around us to lift us up, to encourage us, to support us, to just be there for us in both the loud moments and in the quiet moments when we need them. Father, I would ask that you would just continue to be with us, continue to guide us, continue to help those that are looking for community to find the community where they fit in, whether it's a uh a loud place or a quiet place. Let each of us find exactly where we need to be when we need to be there. And we just thank you that you are sovereign over it all. We thank you that you have given your son and his life for each and every single one of us. And it's in your son's name that we pray. Amen.

Kristy 37:21

Amen.

Tony 37:22

Thank you so much, guys. I hope you guys have a great day and a great rest of your week, and we'll see you next time.

Kristy 37:27

Unshaken family, before I uh before I say goodbye, I wanted to let you know that instead of our usual outro for today, we're gonna include a song um that has some really special meaning. Uh so friends of ours, a family that we know, they have three kids, um, but one of their kids in particular is a speller. He is uh a non-speaker with autism. And back around Mother's Day, he wrote a song for his mom, which inspired his dad to write a song for him. And we would like to just honor the love in that exchange by playing that song for you here instead of our regular outro. So I'm gonna say goodbye, and I love you guys, and have a great week, and we hope you enjoy this really special song.

Speaker 38:32

I accept in my path, Buddhist Nama. I watch you live a life from the cage only God can have you fall. I use my eyes till you have the voice to come. I fight you have the angels of heaven to move my fingers and she's watching store itself like a thief and we stole my dreams of the inside.