Kristy 0:06

Welcome to Unshaken, the podcast where unwavering faith is real life. I'm Kristy, and together with my husband Tony, we dive into authentic conversations, offering biblical insights and sharing stories that inspire resilience, especially for families navigating the unique challenges of disabilities. Join us each week as we explore faith family and the journeys that keep us grounded in Christ. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Let's stand firm together. Hello friends, it's Kristy, and I'm here with Tony. I want to talk about that sort of awkward situation that happens when someone that we encounter, usually someone that we care about, is hurting. They're in a difficult situation or just in pain somehow. When we open our mouth to say something, a lot of times, at least for me, nothing wants to come out because they're all fighting in my brain. Like I'm not really sure which of the things to say is the right thing to say. It feels treacherous to say some of the things and then think, you know, oh my gosh, what if this makes it worse? Well, but I don't want to seem insensitive. I I do want to acknowledge it, and then it's this whole round robin in my brain. And I'm thinking that I might not be the only one that's like that. So let's talk about the need to feel like we have to say something. I think since we're little kids, we have been taught that when we care, when we're showing that we're caring, it means that we're doing something. When we encounter a situation where we can't do something that will fix it, we try to fix the situation so that we can fix the situation. We maybe over-explain, we reassure, maybe where there shouldn't be reassurance. We look for that silver lining. You know, there's so many ways that we do this. And I think this is because in this way that we've been brought up to help our friends, to help the people that we love, silence feels like we're failing in that moment. I think the pressure to say something, though, is part of the problem. Years ago, something really, really bad, really hard happened to me. And I was devastated, not functional. I was absolutely like down and out for the count. At the time this happened, my mom was out of town. I notified her in doing that. I knew that it had to be brief. I couldn't talk about it. I just I had to let her know what had happened and I had to walk away from it. When she heard me that despondent, she felt something. She felt some really big feeling about my baby hurts. My daughter is in anguish, and that makes me feel terrible. So I need to say something to fix it so that I don't have to feel this way. And I don't think that's you know, it's obviously not a conscious string of thoughts, but it's what we do. So mom said some comment about like, well, this is probably for the best because just right there, I'm I'm like, no, no, this is not for the best. There's no way for this is the best. So then I'm hurting more and I'm frustrated, and I'm like, I just I gotta go, mom, I gotta get off the phone. She was hurt. I was hurt. It was just a tough interaction.

Tony 3:51

Why are we so uncomfortable when we don't know what to say? But we all are so uncomfortable when we don't know what the right words are, and and when we feel that sort of helplessness, it can feel like failure. And nobody wants to feel like they're failing, especially no one wants to feel like they're failing somebody that they love. We don't like to let down the people that we love and and the the people that we care about. It just makes for a really hard situation. Not being able to remove the pain or reverse the situation doesn't mean that we have nothing meaningful to offer. We just have to think about what is the person needing versus what am I trying to solve for. When someone else's pain enters the room or enters our space, we feel that, right? We feel that energy. When that happens, we then start to feel helpless. There might be a a pang of fear. Oftentimes it there it's just awkward. Maybe there's some sadness involved, maybe there's just some uncertainty. Without realizing it, we're trying to make the situation easier for ourselves rather than the person that's sort of entered the room with whatever the situation is. We we think to ourselves, if I can explain this, you know, maybe I can make it feel less uh chaotic, if I can figure out the purpose, if I can just make this feel less uh senseless, less pointless, or less meaningless, if I can just convince you that everything's gonna be okay. Maybe I don't have to sit in this same sort of energy. That's where we get it wrong, is we are trying to get ourselves out of whatever this energy is. When we're trying to do that, we're not bad people. Nobody wants to feel that helpless, sort of awkward feeling. We really need to ask ourselves Am I trying to serve the person that is actually going through whatever it is that they're going through, or am I trying to make this moment, this hard moment, less uncomfortable for me? When I think about scripture, my mind immediately goes to Job. What's so weird about this story is that Job suffers all of this stuff, and it's like back to back to back. It is crazy to see everything that Job goes through in a really short amount of time. And his friends show up, and first they do everything right. The very first thing that they do is they sit with him literally for a week, and they're in silence, and they just sit with him. And if the story ends right there, then we have a great picture and a great model of we can just sit with the person, and that works. But instead, what ends up happening in the book of Job is after they sit with him, now they start trying to explain it, and now his three friends that showed up, now they give various speeches about oh, this is why, or this is why, or this, and none of it's helpful. With every chapter that goes by, these friends they just dig themselves into a deeper and deeper hole. We need to just be really careful not to place the weight of our own expectations on someone who is already in a place where they're carrying something that feels unbearable in the moment. It really comes down to what's what's the actual question beneath the words that are surrounding the situation? Someone that that's hurting that might say, I don't know how we're gonna get through this. But underneath that statement, which is a sad statement to begin with, underneath that, what what they really may be asking me is, Am I alone? Are you going to go anywhere? Because I'm sharing this with you. If I share this with you, am I gonna scare you off? Can I be honest with you? How often do we think that in our minds? Can I be honest with this person? Do I have to pretend to be strong? Guys, this is something that we struggle with all the time because we think that we have to be the superhero and and the strong one 24-7. Another question might be, are you afraid of my pain? Probably the most heaviest question that I can think of in this moment is can I fall apart here in this moment with you without making you feel uncomfortable? Because when we're going through something, the last thing that we that we want to do is to make anyone else feel uncomfortable. When we're sitting with someone that is going through something, we forget to truly think about and consider the question that's behind whatever actually comes out of their mouth in the tough moment. We end up saying things like, at least blank. What we're trying to answer is we're trying to say to the person, could this be worse? But the hurting person is not asking, could this be worse? They already feel like this is the worst. They're asking, Am I allowed to admit that this hurts? With the best of intentions, we might say, Oh, you'll get through this. We're trying to let the person that's hurting know that this is not going to be forever. What the person may be asking really is, can somebody help me get through this? I think as uh especially as Christians, one of the worst questions that we try to answer is, what is God teaching you in the moment of hurt or in the moment of pain, that's probably one of the last questions that we need to be asking or answering, because we need to get through the pain first before we look for a lesson. The hurting person is asking, can I grieve before I have to look for a lesson? Can I just hurt for a minute? Can I be sad for a minute? Another one that we, especially as Christians, we get wrong all the time is God has a purpose. We're trying to answer the question, is this meaningless? That's probably the wrong question to answer at this point as well.

Kristy 11:05

For me, you had me at at least. That's the one that got me that one tough time with my mom. It was at least it wasn't like this. And I'm like, okay, yep, you're right. It wasn't like that, and I am still absolutely miserable. Feels almost cruel, right? She's saying the only thing she can come up with, and I'm dismissing it as just stop. That was mean, essentially. That was really mean, and that's the last thing that we want to be, right? We never want to be mean. So, what do we do instead? In thinking about this question, I go to Romans. Paul tells us in Romans 12, rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourn. It's very straightforward, it seems very simple. It's a directive, right? He's very clear. The good news for us is mourning with somebody, sitting with someone while they're mourning. It means you don't have to solve their problem. You could just sit down by them. You don't have to understand, you don't have to get the details on it, you don't have to ask a bunch of hard questions, you don't have to make it feel better. You can just simply be with that person. And with is a big deal. Paul does not say, explain mourning to those who mourn, or evaluate their mourning, tell them if they should still be mourning or if they're all good. Compare their pain to somebody else's pain, or let them know how much worse it could be. None of that is helpful. Paul says to mourn with them, that shared presence, those shared moments. There's so much humility in that, right? Just by sitting down with the person, what we're saying to ourselves and also quietly to them is man, I don't know how to fix this. But I care about you and I see that you're hurting. In that moment, what we're saying is, you're hurting, and I'm hurting because you're hurting, and I'm willing to be in that space. I'm willing to hurt with you because I love you. Presence requires us to stay in that space. It's not just today, it's not just, man, I don't know what to say. I'm so sorry that happened to you. I'm here with you, and then your lunch period's over and you go back to work and all good. I don't think it's like that. We have to go back. We still have to check in, we still have to show them we're in it with them. Because almost certainly in a situation like this, their their pain is not momentary, it's going to be longer than that, it's going to be seasonal, it might be forever. It's just scrolling through your brain, just over and over and over. That's the time when you need somebody to truly be present with you. To just let the grief be there, let it do its thing. We are with you because we care. It has to be continual care, and that that has to be enough because we still don't have the magic a week later.

Tony 14:22

We say to mourn, and this is not just about life or death situations. You know, mourning is just it's just a negative situation. Part of this too is realizing that when we mourn with someone, we're not surrendering hope. We're not saying all hope is gone or all hope is lost. We need to just refuse to just use hope as like a band-aid of a way to just stay at a distance. We're just offering something and then we're just backing away from it because we don't want to be present. We don't want to stay and have to check back.

Kristy 15:03

Earlier this week, Tony and I were talking about this, and I was talking about how being a Christian, it's very easy for us to look forward to a time when things will be better. We're all gonna end up in heaven one day. Awesome. We're gonna be with actual Jesus. Like that's the thing that gets me, right? We're gonna go to heaven and actual Jesus, that man that we love so devoutly and just revere above everything, he's right there. We're gonna sit with him, he's gonna hug us. I pray that he's holding my little dog that I know is with him. Like all of that is there. But in this moment, that does not help me. That is a tomorrow solution for a today problem. And I think that one of the hardest pieces of being a Christian is having to lean into that, right? Like I know that God is with me. I know beyond any doubt that he's with me every second that I am alive. He's never ever left me for a moment, not for the blink of an eye, but I still hurt. And that's the best thing I got. That's the best hope, the best thing I have is that he's with me. It's something that I've been kind of fretting about. It's something I've been talking about with Tony this week. Like I said, and as we're having this conversation, I'm realizing the tool that he gives us for right now is each other. We know he's there. We can feel him with our heart, but what we can't feel is his hand to wipe away our tears, his arms around our body, squeezing us, holding us together when we feel like we're coming apart. That's what he gives us each other for. I'm grateful to have had this realization as we talk through this. So thank you for being part of this. And Tony, thank you for your wisdom because I'm feeling so much better right this minute.

Tony 16:54

We actually see this play out in scripture and in John 11, Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead. But there's something very key in this story. Jesus finds out Lazarus is sick, Lazarus is dying. He waits a couple days, and then he goes. As he's coming into town, they go to meet him, and and they're like, if you had only been here, he's dead. In this, what you feel in this moment is the grief that everyone is feeling. All of the family, all of the friends, they're there and they're grieving and they're mourning because Lazarus has just died. But there's two key points in this. One, Jesus being fully man and fully God knows exactly what's about to happen. He knows what he's about to do. But even though he knows what's going to happen, he still steps into the grief that they are feeling. And you see it recorded in scripture because it says the very shortest verse in the Bible, it says, Jesus wept, and it's because he feels that same emotion and he doesn't dismiss the emotion that everyone is feeling in this moment. I think it's a wonderful lesson for us. It is okay to step into uh the emotion that's being felt. We may have the rational confidence that everything is gonna be okay. Like Chrissy said, we know how the story ends. We know that one day we're gonna be with Jesus forever and ever and ever. That's a wonderful thing. It's a great thing. We should look forward to it, we should anticipate it absolutely. But in this story, Jesus shows us that we can actually step into the moment and be present in the moment of the grief or the negative emotion or whatever is going on, and that's okay to uh to be present with whatever is going on in that moment, and I think he does that here beautifully for everyone that is mourning the death of Lazarus before he does anything else, and again, he knows what he's about to do, he steps into that moment with those that he loves because he loves he loves these people that are mourning the death of Lazarus, and he steps into that grief with them, and he weeps over the death and over the the sadness and over everything that is transpiring in that moment, and then he goes to perform the miracle. But I think it's important that we understand that we can know truth and still honor the timing that people are going through in whatever moments that they're going through, and I think that's where that at least question comes in a lot. We try to give that silver lining, but we don't need to do that. We can just sit in that moment with those that we love, and if they're grieving, we can grieve with them. The Bible gives us room to lament. We should have the compassion to help carry someone through whatever pain they're going through. It's about acknowledging whatever the pain is and being willing, like Christie said before, being willing to be present in that pain even though it doesn't really feel good. Jesus models that for us because he steps into that pain and he's present in that, even though he knows what's coming. I know that there are some tough things going on out there in the world, and you're wondering whether or not your feelings matter, your tears matter, and I'm here to tell you that they do. They matter, they're justified. It is okay. Grief is not proof that you've lost hope. Sometimes grief is actually the turning point where hope can start to take root because you've acknowledged whatever the pain is. So if you are going through something and some tears have fallen, that's okay. That's okay. I just hope and I pray that you do have people around you that are going to be present in that moment with you and will grieve with you as you're processing whatever the difficult situation is.

Kristy 21:52

We say just be with them, just sit with them. And I also think we're doing a disservice when we say the "just" part because staying with someone, sitting with them, being with them, it's not nothing. When we sit with someone, when we put our arms around them, when we bring dinner, what we're saying is, I see you, I see you how you are, I see you in pain, I see you struggling, and I can't fix your pain, but I can show you my love by just taking something little off of you. It's acknowledging the other person's burden, knowing that we can't take the brunt of the burden. There's really nothing we can do about that. But we can give them a little room. Giving them that space, I think, is part of the being with them. We can check in six months later, a year later. We can check in when we know the lost loved one's birthday is coming or the anniversary of their passing, those kinds of things. And we can continue to check in and we can pray with that person, we can just love on that person. I'll tell you, there have been times where nobody could have helped what I was feeling. But man, I sure did feel loved, I sure did feel seen because of something that they thought probably was nothing. When we look into someone's life and see where we can alleviate a burden and just give them that breathing room, I think what we're saying is I'm not going away. I'm I'm going to be with you. This it's uncomfortable and I'm still here. We don't have to fake it. I can't fix this, but I can be with you. I can help you carry it. I can make sure that you're never left alone with it and the rest of your life that's going on because life doesn't stop. When something hard happens, life doesn't stop. But I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid to come in there with you and help you shoulder this burden. Whatever I have to do, I'm willing to do it. We can't say anything that can fix it, but we can do something that would help. Sometimes it helps to know up front what to say. The first thing that comes to mind for me in that situation is, I don't know what to say. You tell me your bad news, and I look at you and I'm like, man, I don't even know what to say to that. Followed by, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry this happened to you. I hate that this happened, but I'm here. I had a I still have a friend. Praise God. I still have a friend who was going through cancer treatment recently. And I would, you know, send a text and check in and not get a response. And then when she would respond two or three days later, she'd say, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to leave you hanging there to a tough day, a tough moment. And what I learned from that is to say, hey, I'm texting you because I want you to know I'm thinking about you. You don't have to answer me. You can just let this one take the love from it and drop it on the floor. I don't, I don't need a response. Something that Tony has taught me because I do this wrong all the time. Like 9.8 times out of 10. It takes me too long to get to. Do you want me to listen? Are you looking for support or are you looking for solutions? Because I am solutions girl, like all day, all night. Tony has a problem. I got a solution for it. And that's ridiculous. What he needs is for me to say, babe, I'm so sorry. Like, that's so rough. Clearly, you're obviously having such a rough day. I how can I best support you? In this moment, I would love to just support you. I want to sit with you. I want to be with you. What might help? Is there anything you can think of that would help? And when he says, I have no idea, then my response needs to be that I'm just gonna sit here. I'm not gonna leave. I'm just gonna sit here. Would you think that would ever occur to me in the moment? No. But having this conversation is gonna help me, and I pray that it helps you too. I hope that this is one of those situations where practicing the response and having something in mind to say will keep us from being on the spot in that moment when our heart wants to fix the problem before anything. Hopefully, having these words, having this on deck to say, will keep us out of that situation. And it'll help our brain to pause the need to fix and be able to insert something loving and kind. James tells us be quick to listen, slow to speak. He doesn't say be silent forever. He doesn't say be afraid of speaking the truth, but he does say, chill a minute. Listen to what they're saying, pay attention, don't just storm in with solutions. That time, that pause, that wisdom that that James gives us, that's what allows us to be the friend, the partner, the spouse that God has called us to be in that moment and not Julie Fix It that really has no ability to fix anything. Praise God that we have the tool of being able to pause and think of the loving action instead of the selfish words.

Tony 27:36

I love what you were talking about, how the follow-up and the checking in beyond just the initial moment, because care really does become trustworthy when it's specific and it's dependable. Like you were saying earlier, when the crowd is gone and all the commotion is done, and yet it's the following week or the following month, and you're still sitting in the moment. The world is continuing to spin, but you're living still in this hard moment. And so when you have someone, or when you are that person that is providing the care, those things are just precious because it says to the other person, I'm still here. That presence just means so much when we are dependable in these tough seasons. In all of this, there's never going to be a perfect script. There's never going to be the magic words that are just gonna be the perfect thing to say each and every time. Life doesn't work that way. We're not trying to give you an ABC type script. Sometimes we just need to encourage someone with presence while being silent, just being there to listen to whatever they they have to say and not being so quick to fill the silence. And also to realize, too, is that different people are going to need different things. There may be a person that needs that reassurance of God's faithfulness in whatever's going on. Another may need just to know that we're there and we simply have to give them permission to cry. Sometimes, especially for guys, sometimes we need that express permission to cry because we feel like it's not okay if we cry. Sometimes the most healing thing that we can do is to give someone that permission to truly feel whatever that emotion is.

Kristy 30:00

I agree with everything you said. And I would give you that having someone say, like, do you want to watch a movie? Hey, do you want to get out of the house? It almost gives permission to to go on vacation from that thing that that is eating you from the inside, and you know that maybe it shouldn't be, but it is. That can be an action that helps is to just help the person have a little minute away from it, if that's what they want.

Tony 30:32

Absolutely agree. Love is not gonna be flawless communication. Love is attention, love is humility, love is being willing to notice when something did not land well and adjust, try to do better next time. We can't love people well from a script. We have to get to know people and having those relationships where we truly know our people, it's gonna be messy. It's gonna take time, it's gonna take intentionality, it's gonna take us paying attention both during the good times and the bad times. So we know how they react and we know what they need in those times when when it is tough. The goal is not about being flawless or being an expert at difficult conversations, the goal is to become the kind of person that others can be honest with, others can feel like they don't have to be polished, they don't have to put on some kind of mask, others can just feel like even in their messy falling apart state, they're not afraid to be that way in front of you, they're not afraid of being in a vulnerable position, they trust you that way. If we can be the kind of person that is that trustworthy, where others feel safe to fall apart in our presence, what a blessing we can be to others because they don't have to be strong with us, they can be strong for others. Maybe with us they get a little bit of rest. Kristy was talking about taking a a mental break a vacation. Maybe the vacation is being able to fall apart in our presence, and we're the only people that they can fall apart with because they've got to be strong for everybody else in their world. What a blessing we can be in those situations. There may come a day someone is ready to talk about the meaning of this horrible situation or growth or what God taught them or whatever, but love isn't going to demand that of them. That's something that they have to work out for themselves, and that timing is completely up to them. We just have to be present with them and give them the room to breathe as they process and go through whatever it is that they're going through. Through this conversation that we've had today, we can realize that Romans 12:15, it's not about what do I say? Rather, it's about what does love require from me in this moment with this person. Maybe it's just a moment of silent internal prayer. God give me the words, empty me out, empty my own preference. Just give me the words that I need to speak. And if there are no words, then help me to shut up, help me to be quick to listen and slow to speak, you know, so that we can do the best we can for those that we love. If we can be the steady, trustworthy people that others do depend on in those tough moments. Years later, people aren't going to remember the exact words that we said, but they will remember that we were there and that we were present in their hard moments. And I think that matters a heck of a lot more than any words that we could ever say. Father, we come for you, and we're just uh so thankful that you are near to us, that you do weep when we weep, and that you not only provide room for us to weep, but you want us to be present in those moments. And so, Father, thank you for the example that you gave in your son, Jesus, and thank you for the presence that we can be for each other because we are relational, we're not robots, we're not scripted, but rather we are people that can lean on each other and lean on you as we move through life and as we go through good seasons, bad seasons, and all things, we know that you do work it out for your good. And so we again thank you for being sovereign. We thank you for everything that you do for us each and every day, and the gifts uh that you give us, and we ask that you be with us and give us the words so that we can be the people that are trustworthy and dependable. And we ask these things in your son's precious name. Amen.

Kristy 36:04

Amen.

Tony 36:05

Thank you guys so much. Hope you guys have a wonderful day and a wonderful week, and we'll see you next time.

Kristy 36:12

Love you guys, appreciate you.